PM me the information on this please... I need to title my 1974 Jeep in New Paltz- That is how I know 1971 is the cut off!

THANKS

JOe

__________________
"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy"

Current
Monika '74 450 SL
BrownHilda '79 280SL
FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban
Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee
Krystal 2004 Volvo S60
Gone
'74 Jeep CJ5
'97 Jeep ZJ Laredo
Rudolf ‘86 300SDL
Bruno '81 300SD
Fritzi '84 BMW
'92 Subaru
'96 Impala SS
'71 Buick GS conv
'67 GTO conv
'63 Corvair conv
'57 Nomad

Ethics, legality, fraud, larceny? The real question concerning you getting a title for your vehicle and what must be done, centers around intent. You want a title for a vehicle you paid for (no fraud, no larceny). If you don't believe the car was stolen and you acquired it legally, do what ever it takes.
For there to be a crime, there must first be a victim. Who will be victimized, if you do what ever is needed to get a legal title in your name?
I would not involve the 3rd party "friendly" notary, because when they do get audited, it could get ugly. Only takes one complaint from the right person to get that ball rolling.
Your dealing with people who don't give a *****, are incompetent and can't be fired from their jobs (DMV). Good luck

__________________
Jackson
Rockford, Michigan

1985 500SE gray market
1982 Porsche 928
1985 Mercedes 300CD X 2

To address several points raised, in the order of easy to answer on down...

1. That's an incorrect and unfair description of the DMV folks. You may not agree with them and the rules they're trying to enforce, but that's no reason to call them names. They have rules they must enforce and they can't cut you slack just because you think there's no crime being committed because you have good intentions. Present them with a problem and ask for their help, and you'll find they will indeed help. The clerk at the counter may not be bright enough or experienced enough to see past the paperwork, but that's why they have supervisors.

2. One rule about notarizing things in NY is that you can't notarize anything for somebody with the last name as yourself. Obviously that rule is a bit silly. I learned this from my sister who's a notary. She can notarize things for me because she uses her married name.

3. The rule about enforcing title notarization is national says the NY DMV (I had this problem last year with a car from NC). No state will casually break it they say because it's part of the DHS crackdown on paperwork.

4. Here's what the Georgia DMV has to say... http://motor.etax.dor.ga.gov/motor/registration/regrequirements.asp Look for where it says "new requirement".

5. NYS will help you past this problem if you work with the DMV (see note above about asking for help). It won't be fast. Sending the letter like you did is the first step. However, you need to send it registered and it has to come back to you as undeliverable first.

6. Still have family in CT? Ask one of them to try and register the car in CT. If nothing else, that will give you a different state's perspective on the problem.

Good luck -CTH

__________________
- cth350@gmail.com
http://www.111lakeside.com/

True, but you gotta watch em! Two years ago, through the complete inability of the counter person and the supervisor to understand the concept of a "transfer on death" clause, they required me to have a third party with no ownership interest in the vehicle perjure themselves in order to satisfy a point of irrelevant bureaucracy.

Their complete misunderstanding of the out of state law, and even local state law, despite me assembling overwhelming evidence of both made it almost impossible for me to register a car I actually currently owned in a new state. I even had a law explanation document officially stamped by the state government that they rejected out of hand.

The way we finally found a way around that one to prevent perjury of the third party was I actually crossed out several passages of the DMV paperwork and wrote in the issue and cited relevant laws, then we both signed it, and since they only gave the document a cursory glance when I went back, it worked.

Basically this is an example of an ingrained adherence to the bureaucratic paperwork process taking the place of any real understanding of what the paperwork actually means and requires. Was just a huge PITA overall, especially since the third party was hostile and uncooperative.

Big lesson I learned on that one was NEVER put anyone else on a title apart from yourself. If you don't have a will, the car goes to your next of kin or wife automatically, no need to write that out on a title.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

some developments.

PO/Flipper has now cut off contact with me, guess he was angry that I actually wanted to register the car! Thank god I did not send him the title!

2nd development- Letter to owners listed on the title came back undeliverable. Guess next option is to go with CTH350's suggestion and send the same letter registered.

I am actually considering moving out of state though, so I think I might just sit on the car for a bit depending on where I go.

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

the PO / flipper has most likely violated a State Law by selling a vehicle with an "Open Title". You may be able to get some cooperation from this person by sending a registered letter illustrating this fact.

There are title service companies who can help you with this matter, typically for a fee of somewhere around $200 - $300. They are perfectly legal, and work like this... The title service company is typically located in AL, GA, or some other state without titling requirements for older cars.

You "sell" the car to them, they get a clean AL or GA (etc.) title in their name, then "sell" the car back to you, allowing you to get a clean title in your home state.

SteveM.

__________________
'93 190E/D 2.5 Turbodiesel 5-speed (daily driver)
'87 190D 2.5 Turbo rustbucket - parts car
'84 Dodge Rampage diesel - Land Speed Record Holder
'13 Ram 2500 Diesel
'05 Toyota 4Runner

Jetmugg is absolutely correct. For about $200 you can get a clean, rehabbed title in your name.
I had to do this with a title I actually lost in my own home. $200 later, voila...brand new title. Of course, six months later I found the original title. Crap!
Georgia and Alabama have tons of these title places. Find a reputable one and...Bob's your uncle.
Alabbasi is also correct. You can register ANYTHING in this state with a bill of sale if the car is 25 years old. And no emissions on cars older than 20 years. And absolutely no emissions on diesels at all. However, draconian emissions standards apply to anything else.

ultimate solution found. I just sat on the car, and moved to RI as I have been planning to for a while. RI does not require title for cars from the year 2000 back. I can register it now with just a bill of sale and a previous registration, which I have!

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

After buying and selling countless old cars, mostly British, there is not a title or tag nightmare I have not encountered.

I recently bought a '79 300CD from the original owner and the Georgia DMV had it titled as a MERC which is, of course, is a Mercury, not an MERZ which is the code they use for our cars. Luckily, the original owner was able to get it changed and a corrected title sent to me.

__________________
"Life is tough...it's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne


Dave
Pawleys Island, SC

'79 300CD

I guess success in obtaining (or keeping) title & registration often depends on where you happen to live.
I recall reading several years ago that California was auditing many of those Alabama-sourced registrations used to obtain California titles, and voiding those titles!

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

Not in Virginia.

I transferred many out of state titles that required notarized signatures in their home state (PA for ex.), and never had them question the lack of notarization.

They have questioned many other things, but not that.....

Just did one in Sept, no problem.

Jim


Add: Virginia title transfer does not require the notarization of the seller's signature. That is the basis for ignoring the requirement on another state's title.

__________________
14 E250 BlueTEC black. 45k miles
95 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 66k miles
94 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 152k miles
85 300TD 4 spd man, euro bumpers and lights, 15" Pentas dark blue 274k miles

How can they do that?
If you went to all the trouble to move the vehicle registration out of state, then back into the state in order to title it, and it was all done legally, what rules have been broken, and how can they void the title?

I hate the cross-state bureaucratic snafus that arise from these situations. I once drove through MA with a MO temp plate on my car, which is perfectly legal, but I got pulled over and told to "Leave the state immediately" since this was my "one chance to get out" since according to the trooper, He and other MA state troopers would not honor the out of state temp plate since MA does not issue temp plates, and would write me a ticket for no registration or plates, or impound the car! The guy was an incredible dick with no provocation at the time either.

There is no way such a threat would hold water, but I would have had to fight the ticket in an MA court, so I just left the state since I was heading towards MO anyway. (at the time, I was a half mile over the border from RI at a K-mart, so it was easy to leave)

__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Ever since I read about the California title audits, I've become a bit more paranoid about state burocracies.
When I purchased my Euro 300TD three years ago, Virginia DMV refused to accept the Maryland Title because the VIN prefix WDB had somehow been ommitted from the prior Maryland and DC titles. I was lucky that the seller was willing & able to deal with the hassle of getting Maryland to issue a corrected title. But even with that, when I went back to Virginia DMV, the clerk stared at her computer-screen, with a very puzzled look, for an awfully long time, before she completed my title-transfer and registration.
I occasionally wonder if someday, I may yet receive a letter from DMV stating "Mr DiSilvestro, We regret to inform you....."!

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

Mark,

I spent some time in auto squad when I was a cop back in the day. I recall that Alabama did not required a title, just a bill of sale. We ran across many stolen cars that had Alabama paperwork. It seems that is why California wised up.

__________________
"Life is tough...it's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne


Dave
Pawleys Island, SC

'79 300CD

Even outside California, if I tried to title a car using an Alabama registration, I wonder how long before the other states 'wise up'?

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW