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  #16  
Old 12-08-2010, 03:48 PM
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sounds good.

are there different grind cams that do not require different lifters? i am thinking your idea of an "evolution" is the way to go, and i am guessing that i will be more than happy with the basic 560 motor. i am intrigued by the tri Y pipes mostly because it would be alot easier to do this from the start considering i will need to modify the downpipes no matter what. i would prefer is just do this once! can you explain the modification to the right frame rail? how extensive is it?? in any case, whether i use the 560SL manifolds, or the 500SL tri Y, are these installed after the motor is in place or before the drop in?

can you provide years and models i can find the tri Y manifolds on??

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  #17  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:18 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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The camshafts that mclare (on the other board) is using are the best for the hydraulic lifters. They are the same as the ones used on the 300hp version. They are easier fitted while the engine is out of the car as you can slide them from behind in the cam towers. With engine in place it requires removing the cam towers and these engines are notorious to shread head bolts... But it's not all the time!

You do well to mention fitment of the manifolds with the engine in place: I have replaced the studs with bolts so that I can slide the manifolds down between the head and the chassis rail without getting the studs on the way.

The right back manifold of the tri-Y system interferes with the top inner hedge of the chassis rail, right behind the front axle mount, under the battery tray.

The right way to deal with it is to cut the 7 inches long and one and half inch deep area and weld a nicely concave shaped piece instead.

The easy way is to take a big hammer and hit the hedge of the rail until you get the shape you want. I did both and if I had to redo it I would choose the hammer technology. Way quicker and easier for similar results.

You can find tri-Y systems on all 107026 and LHD 107046 cars. These are the r107 450 SLC 5.0; the r107 500SLC and r107 500SL.

If you source them out of a 450SLC 5.0 please let me know as I'm looking for one of these early engines.
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:39 PM
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great news

so.....where can you buy these cams? or do i send mine out for a regrind? can i just put them in and not worry about any fuel management issues, or will i need to do alot of fiddling.

in my perfect world, i would just drop in the tri Y manifolds, put in the better cams and be done with it all. i am thinking that the manifolds and cams are going to require some headaches regarding electronics and fuel delivery???? please tell me i am wrong, OR that it would be a major pain in the neck.
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:15 PM
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Gael you're a guru

Ok Gael

- Since your are impressing us with your vast understanding and practical knowledge .....
Is this conversion a possible ?

My new 1987 420 engine trans into the 73 280 listed below?

my '73 280 pronounced dead D:

Thanks in advance
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:50 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merchauser View Post
great news

so.....where can you buy these cams? or do i send mine out for a regrind? can i just put them in and not worry about any fuel management issues, or will i need to do alot of fiddling.

in my perfect world, i would just drop in the tri Y manifolds, put in the better cams and be done with it all. i am thinking that the manifolds and cams are going to require some headaches regarding electronics and fuel delivery???? please tell me i am wrong, OR that it would be a major pain in the neck.
You should contact mclare on the other board. He had the specs of his camshafts measured by a machine shop that can regrind any pair to similar specs. You can send yours or another pair to keep yours as spare in case you're not happy with the result.

Honestly, I don't foresee any big headache. I think it will work well just by dropping all the parts as you say, even if later you will gain in sourcing another ignition module with more aggressive curves. I think the Kjet system will do well with it but you should post your questions directly on the Benzworld W126 board as I'm not too familiar with these systems. I went with a fuel & spark stand alone system.

Also you will need to get the trans "brain" out of the W126.
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  #21  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:54 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgranzier View Post
Ok Gael

- Since your are impressing us with your vast understanding and practical knowledge .....
Is this conversion a possible ?

My new 1987 420 engine trans into the 73 280 listed below?

my '73 280 pronounced dead D:

Thanks in advance
Joe, it is possible. But here, contrarily to the W111 you will need an r107 oil filter housing and oil pan, as the W114 shares its platform with the r107. And the 126 exhaust manifold may not clear the engine bay, I don't know. r107 ones will clear.

I may have an r107 oil filter housing and engine mount brackets around. I will give them to you if you go for that project.
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2010, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
Joe, it is possible. But here, contrarily to the W111 you will need an r107 oil filter housing and oil pan, as the W114 shares its platform with the r107. And the 126 exhaust manifold may not clear the engine bay, I don't know. r107 ones will clear.

I may have an r107 oil filter housing and engine mount brackets around. I will give them to you if you go for that project.
Yep, w114 and R107 sub frame is the same. An M117 transplant is not uncommon. I've even seen a few W123's converted to M117 V8's. The nicest one belonging to a motoring journist in the UK who has an W123 with a 300HP 560 motor in it.







But it's those wheels that do it.
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Al
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2010, 06:34 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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Is that the same car? He's got serious negative camber all round on the last picture.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:08 AM
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are the reground cams necessary to take advantage of the tri Y manifolds? how difficult to replace the lifters? does this create additional engine noise? now i am thinking to get the manifolds and save the cam idea for a future date. i should get all i want out of the engine swap alone. ???
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:44 AM
GGR GGR is offline
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These mods complement eachother quite well but you can have one or the other done separately. In theory it is better to start with the exhaust as you want to make sure you can get all the air out before admiting more. In practice it will depend on what you find first. Honestly, if you plan to do the camshafts at some stage I would do them now. Way easier and less risky with the engine out.

It took me three hours (more or less) per side to replace the lifters, the camshafts and do the adjustment. Not really that complicated. It's a matter of getting the rockers out by pressing on the valves, getting the camshafts out by undoing the sprocket in the front and sliding the shafts from the back, unbolting the hydro lifters, bolting the solid lifters in, put the new camshafts in, the rockers and adjustement. But before that you will need to machine the rockers as shown on the other post and it takes some time.

You should also replace timing chain, guides and tensioner at the same time (unless it was done recently) as this is the weak point of these engines.

It won't be noisier than the 3.5 as basically it's the same system.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2010, 10:48 AM
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GGR: do you have a shop?? do you have any manifolds or a source? been checking my usual suspects and things look a bit bleak. is this holy grail stuff, or perhaps just super expensive??
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2010, 01:15 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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No, I don't have a shop, this is a hobby for me.

These tri-Y systems are not that easy to find in the US as they were on grey market cars. I heared Jono saying he has a set collecting dust in his shop. Now that I think of it, he also has performance camshafts that will fit the hydraulic lifters. He's usually not cheap, but there will be no harm in asking: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/2123-jhodg5ck.html

Otherwise you should contact Roland. He's got a shop in Germany and he may be able to source what you need: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/108447-roland500sel.html

As a last resort, try to see if they're still available new via Tom Hanson at the MB Classic Center. No harm in asking for prices.

Otherwise just start with 560SL manifolds. They are much easier to source in the US (junkyards, Potomac German Auto, eBay...), they will be easier to fit on your car and they will be an improvement over the US W126 manifolds anyway. One day you may find a set of tri-Ys for a good price and you will be happy to fit them as an evolution of your project.
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2010, 02:58 PM
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I have a set of 107 Tri-Y's.
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With best regards

Al
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2010, 08:11 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
No, I don't have a shop, this is a hobby for me.

These tri-Y systems are not that easy to find in the US as they were on grey market cars. I heared Jono saying he has a set collecting dust in his shop. Now that I think of it, he also has performance camshafts that will fit the hydraulic lifters. He's usually not cheap, but there will be no harm in asking: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/2123-jhodg5ck.html

Otherwise you should contact Roland. He's got a shop in Germany and he may be able to source what you need: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/108447-roland500sel.html

As a last resort, try to see if they're still available new via Tom Hanson at the MB Classic Center. No harm in asking for prices.

Otherwise just start with 560SL manifolds. They are much easier to source in the US (junkyards, Potomac German Auto, eBay...), they will be easier to fit on your car and they will be an improvement over the US W126 manifolds anyway. One day you may find a set of tri-Ys for a good price and you will be happy to fit them as an evolution of your project.
The cast iron tri manifolds were designed for engines Without cats .So if you find an engine in a junk yard with some on check it's engine number . It could possibly be a RuF version . Only Cat-less cars were supposed to have them .I have set of RHD ones here . The rarest of the rare!.
A set of headers has been fitted to the project i am doing for a customer which has solved all the clearance problems. They were made from parts out of the Walker catalogue. Very simple and cheap . Only the head flanges were the complicated part,being made by a laser cutting firm from a gasket.

Gael,you reminded of the W112 radiator!! I just have to find one now~!.it's a pity Chris Johnson is so far from Me.
Attached Thumbnails
3.5 to 5.6 engine swap-20-oct-2010-ebay-013.jpg  
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  #30  
Old 12-10-2010, 08:12 PM
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With a coating of jet hot silver ceramic they look a lot better.
W126 M117 AMG Headers-20-november-2010-ebay-010.jpg

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