I just returned form the Newport Beach vintage Mercedes show at Fashion Island. My wife and I have fallen in love with the 111 series coupe. We own two mbz's that we could go to war in so we are looking for something a little bit more romantic. Something that four kids can't fit into!!! Does anyone have the pro's and con's to this beautiful automobile!! There are the 220's, 250's and the 280's. Someone said that the '70~'71 280 is most in demand because of the 3.5 liter engine and the low profile grile. Will this be a continual drain on my wallet (remember I have four little ones). Am I completely over my head in thinking about this car for a weekend driver??? Should I just dream about it and leave it at that. There were two for sale at the show, a '66 250se coupe in good condition for $17,000 and a 61?? 220se coupe in showroom condition for $30,000. What should I look for or be aware of... Thanks

Gregg Vurbeff
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'84 300TD 198,000 miles "grocery getter"
'78 300D 176,000 miles "my 100 mile a dayer"

Gregg,

I am not an expert on these cars (yet), but I am also looking for an older car, such as a 280 SEL. In response to your question about cost of ownership, I will say this, if you are not mechanically minded, any older car, especially a luxury import, will nickel and dime you to death. Things like window mechanisms, rubber seals, vacuum lines, brake hoses, etc etc etc, need to be tweeked. If you like to tinker, have the skill and aptitude ( and time), it can bring great pleasure. Otherwise, it is a great $ drain to pay someone, and if you don't go to a true expert ( reaf $$), the cheap garages will screw it up and really ruin it.

I would look at the time and confidence you have on to work on your current cars as well as the money you are willing to budget towrds monthly maintenace and then jump in both feet!!

Hope you have fun. Please post your new car decision on this site and put a link to a pix on Hack's home page!

Best Regards,

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Deezel
87 300TDT
150,000 miles

Thanks for your reply! I'm presently looking at a 67 250se coupe that is for sale by a local collector. He has 11 of these and is trying to sell some off to purchase a 300 roadster. The car has a very good recent paint job, new short block, rebuilt trans, new brakes,new muffler, shocks and virtually anything that needed to be fixed is fixed. The interior is in very good condition. He's asking 18k for it. His advise is to buy something that someone else has fixed up or you'll be in the big $$$$$ fast. I'll continue to look and just maybe this is the car for us. He had three cars in the show one being a gullwing. I saw a 280 sel in ebay that has been completely gone over. He was asking 9k for it. I'll keep an eye out and let you know our ultimate decision. Thanks again for the reply.

I have a 1970 280SE Coupe that I need a rear window seal (for openers) or I may be interested in selling it "as is" to someone who wants to complete the restoration of this beautiful classic. It has 60,000 original miles and is primered, ready for paint (all trim removed).

You might want to post this in the "for sale" section, and include pictures as well, along with some addtl. information (engine/trans/options).

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

If you buy a very nice one the cost to maintain should be very reasonable. If the car is right to begin with there will be only routine maintenance for a long time.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

They all seem to be appreciating; certainly the 3.5 coupe is the way to go but it'll cost you. A close second is a the six-cylinder which is quite fun to drive. I've "inherited" a 1966 250SE Cabrio that I've been getting up and running, and I absolutely love driving it. If you can afford it, then go for it, but don't let your emotions buy a car.

Take some time, look at 6-10 of them, do some homework, find a good one. They're out there. One thing I've learned since falling in love with the MBs again is that if think you found a good one, then there's another good one right behind it. Take your time, do your homework, look at a lot of them, buy the best one you can.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

Gregg, I have a 3.5 coupe and it is an absolute pleasure to drive. It has all the modern amenities (powerwindows, sunroof) of a modern car, but the style of a classic. I use mine as a daily driver. It has been very reliable (start and runs always), but as the forum members know, I have had my share of gremlins that pop up in 30+ year old cars once in a while.

Being mechanically inclined is recommended if you want to keep costs down. I do all the work myself also because it is getting hard to find people who can really do good work on these cars (I still have to fix the steering misalignment done by a previous owner's reputable garage and had to take the transmission out because a previous owners garage had not installed stuff correctly - blowing up the release bearing). By doing the labor myself, I also have more money available to buy new (dealer) parts rather than use 2nd hand hit or miss parts. Rather than trying to figure out why a part does not work, I just buy a new one, and put it in. Then I MAY take the old part apart out of curiosity.

It can get expensive. Just to give you an indication: I bought my 3.5 coupe 7 years ago for $6,600 in Boston and it came with $16,000 (!) of receipts of work done between 1992-1999. It is a great driver (drove it down from Boston to Atlanta after buying it), but it needs bodywork. My problem is that it runs so well, that I hate to start tearing it apart for restoration

You really need to ask yourself whether you wether you want a show car (for weekends), or "just" a good looking car for daily driving. Next question is whether you want the car in that condition, of you feel inclined to buy one in lower condition and bring it up a notch. The latter saves money but is risky, but if it is right now in running condition with decent body work and chassis (poke with screwdriver in beams), you minimize risk. I bought mine full well knowing it needed welding repairs and most recommend shying away from that, but it was a rare manual shift 3.5 coupe. The problem with starting a restauration is that once you start, it becomes an avalange. Suddenly the seats that were fine when you bought the car start looking old compared to the new paint job. The chrome looks a bit dull, so you decide to rechrome. Well, but with that nice chrome, we should probably also get new emblems. Hm, under the hood looks kind of grungy. Maybe I should replace/renew some things there too. And that ding in the bumper is really becoming annoying... You get the point.

Personally, I would recommend you buy the best you can buy for the money you have, but make sure you see receipts for parts bought!

I have never driven a 6 cyl 280se coupe, but I can guarantee that you'll love the 3.5 V8. But, they are heavy beasts and you should mind the rising fuel cost... I will be using my '63 MGB more this summer because it is a lot more fuel efficient (lighter+smaller engine).

Hope this helps,

Bert

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'70 111 280SE/c 3.5 (4 spd manual) - sold
'63 MGB
'73 MGBGT V8

The six will probably not get much better fuel economy than the 8.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Did you ever buy a coupe?

Dave Benson
280SE 3.5 Coupe

Compliments on a great "summary"

I know what Bert is talking about. Almost 4 years ago I pulled my coupe (a well running car) into the garage to inspect the brakes. I found looseness in the king pins. So I deceided to rebuild the front suspension. This has avalanched into a total chassis/suspension/drivetrain rebuild. I can't put something back together after finding other work that needs to be done. Now it's esentially a bare shell on a rolling stand.

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Tony H
W111 280SE 3.5 Coupe
Manual transmission

Past cars:
Porsche 914 2.0
'64 Jaguar XKE Roadster
'57 Oval Window VW
'71 Toyota Hilux Pickup Truck-Dad bought new
'73 Toyota Celica GT

If you have a choice, buy the '66 250SE coupe, it's significantly better than the 220SEb. I've owned both, and although they share the same body, the '66 has refinements, in addition to being (slightly) younger. They are beautiful cars, and I regret selling my '66. Ned