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  #1  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:12 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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W110 Clutch Release

Hello everyone, I'm now having some clutch issues with my 68 200D.

It seems the clutch is not releasing all the way. The car is up on jackstands at all four corners. When we push the clutch down and shift to 1 the wheels move (when the engine is on). With the car off, the driveshaft will not move when the clutch pedal is pushed down. So this leads me to believe that the clutch is not releasing.

We took the slave cylinder off and tried moving the arm that goes into the transmission. It moves pretty easily by hand. Is it supposed to be easy to move by hand? No matter what position we move the arm to, the driveshaft remains locked when in gear. Is it supposed to do that? Am I not understanding a fundamental element in the operation of transmissions? The driveshaft moves freely in neutral.

I have replaced the master and slave cylinder. I also put new line on for the entire assembly. I finally bled several times with a Motive bleeder. Don't really know what to do from here.

Thanks for all the help. I promise that I will try to help out with problems once I learn the ropes on vintage Mercedes and get mine running
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  #2  
Old 06-29-2013, 01:01 PM
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Reverse bleed from front left brake caliper through slave into master under the clutch pedal, into a jar of brake fluid.. or adjust travel on clutch pedal via spring on top of pedal.
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R107.043 Euro 350SL (parts)(crushed)
W116.024 280se (crushed)
W114 280 (m110)
W108.067 280se 4.5
W108.068 280seL 4.5 (crushed)
W111 220SEB coupe
W110 200D went to the crusher
W110 190D sold sold sold

1970 Rover P6B

Used to own(1950 buick,1969 lincoln MK3,4G63t colt,87 300ZX, 79 F100, 92 XJ40)
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  #3  
Old 06-29-2013, 02:08 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't know you can adjust the spring on top of the pedal. Can you explain how to do that?

Shouldn't the clutch release when I move the arm coming out of the bottom of the transmission bellhousing all the way back by hand towards the rear of the car? My driveshaft is still locked in place no matter where that arm is which makes me worried that something is broken in the clutch throw out bearing.
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  #4  
Old 06-29-2013, 02:56 PM
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Srinifin:

Is the slave cylinder mounted alongside of the gearbox, with the pushrod pointing forward?

You stated that you were able to move the throwout arm easily by hand; were you pushing on the socket in the arm, and in what direction were you moving the arm?
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  #5  
Old 06-29-2013, 04:11 PM
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The slave is mounted on the bottom if the trans in the drivers side. The push rod is pointing towards the rear of the car.

When I bleed the slave unhooked from the trans and push in the clutch the pushrod pushes out like it should. When everything is hooked back up it doesn't want to release the clutch all the way but the pushrod does move the arm on the trans towards the rear.
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  #6  
Old 06-29-2013, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SriniFin View Post
When I bleed the slave unhooked from the trans and push in the clutch the pushrod pushes out like it should. When everything is hooked back up it doesn't want to release the clutch all the way but the pushrod does move the arm on the trans towards the rear.
When the slave is unhooked from the trans, and you depress the clutch pedal, how far does the pushrod travel? When the slave is re-installed, and the pedal depressed, is the pushrod travel the same as when free?

When the slave is connected to the throwout arm, and you begin to depress the pedal, is there free travel at the pedal before the T/O arm begins to move? If so, how much?

When you move the T/O arm to the rear by hand, are you able to move it through the full stroke that would be required to release the clutch (the full stroke would be slightly less than the no-load pushrod travel)?

The objective of these questions is to try to determine if your problem is essentially of a hydraulic nature (master cyl., slave cyl., piping), or if there is a fault in the pressure plate or clutch disc.
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  #7  
Old 06-29-2013, 05:55 PM
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I think it goes out the distance it should but I can measure it tonight.

I think the rod was too far extended from the slave since it didn't let the throw out arm come all the way back. So we used the nut to thread the rod into the slave more. When everything is hooked up there us almost no free travel in the clutch and the pedal is pushed in pretty far in relation to the brake when nothing is pressed so it probably needs to be adjusted.

I will try to take pictures of everything tonight
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  #8  
Old 06-29-2013, 09:38 PM
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Alright, so I just talked to one of my automotive buddies and he told me that I should not be able to move the clutch fork/ throwout arm by hand. The pressure plate should be providing a lot of resistance. Was everyone else able to move their throwout arm by hand? I mean it seriously takes no effort whatsoever. I can move it back and forth with one hand without trying. I'll try to post a pic of what's going on when I get back.
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2013, 11:58 PM
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Sounds like a clutch arm pivot issue. I have no experience with a Mercedes manual but there should be a point between the throw out bearing and the slave rod where the arm pivots, this seems to be out of adjustment, dislodged of broken. Once the TO bearing touches the pressure plate you should not be able to push it by hand.
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  #10  
Old 06-30-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrocamp View Post
Sounds like a clutch arm pivot issue. I have no experience with a Mercedes manual but there should be a point between the throw out bearing and the slave rod where the arm pivots, this seems to be out of adjustment, dislodged of broken. Once the TO bearing touches the pressure plate you should not be able to push it by hand.
I think you're right but is there anyway to definitely check for this without removing the trans? I think I have settled on pulling the trans but I am not looking forward to it and would much rather prefer an easier solution haha.
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  #11  
Old 06-30-2013, 08:19 AM
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Can you look up the hole with a bend-a-light for example and see the pivot and length of arm? The arm could be bad as well, I have seen these crack and bend on other makes. For both of these issues though you probably need to remove trans to fix. On some makes there is a plastic pivot bush that could crack and break, creating your type of problem.
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2013, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrocamp View Post
Can you look up the hole with a bend-a-light for example and see the pivot and length of arm? The arm could be bad as well, I have seen these crack and bend on other makes. For both of these issues though you probably need to remove trans to fix. On some makes there is a plastic pivot bush that could crack and break, creating your type of problem.
So I tried looking up the hole with a flashlight. The parts don't look great but they don't look completely bad (yet). We tried to ratchet strap the throw out arm back and it did actually release the clutch and we were able to move the driveshaft!

We then put everything back together and bled the slave and when we hit the clutch it wasn't releasing enough. So we threaded the slave rod out some more and tried again but the pressure blew out the rubber flex hose that hooks up to the slave. Anybody know the part number for that hose? I'm having a hard time finding it.

It's the rubber flex hose that has a M14 female and M12 male and hooks up to the slave cylinder.

Thanks for all the help.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:08 PM
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I would like to change that clutch slave cylinder hose on my 1967 Finnie too. If it's not available new, is it possible to have the rubber part of the hose changed by a hydraulic / hose company? Anyone done that before, retaining the original fittings?
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
I would like to change that clutch slave cylinder hose on my 1967 Finnie too. If it's not available new, is it possible to have the rubber part of the hose changed by a hydraulic / hose company? Anyone done that before, retaining the original fittings?
That's what we are trying to do now. We are taking the remnants of the old hose and fittings to a local motorsport shop to see if they can make a line for us. I'll post back up if that works...

The other idea we had was to thread in an M14 fitting into the master cylinder. Then tap M10 threads into the M14 fitting. We could also put an M12 fitting in the slave and drill/tap M10 threads into the M12 fitting. Now, you can just use M10 brake hose which almost every euro car uses. That's probably the route we'll go if the shop doesn't come through.
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
I would like to change that clutch slave cylinder hose on my 1967 Finnie too. If it's not available new, is it possible to have the rubber part of the hose changed by a hydraulic / hose company? Anyone done that before, retaining the original fittings?
Just wanted to update that the local motorsports shop here did make us a new line. He reused both fittings at the end but put in a new 400 PSI rubber hose. He then welded some 21 mm nuts to the fittings. He charged $100 for that.

Coolvibes, if you can't find anybody locally to make a new line you can send me your line and I can see if the shop here will make a new one for you too.
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