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Old 02-17-2014, 01:28 AM
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Jam Engineering Weber Carburetor Conversion Kit Questions

I am in the final stages of putting my roommate's 1965 W111 220S engine back together. The previous owner installed a Jam Engineering (similar to Redline) Weber carburetor conversion kit to replace the original Zeniths. They seemed to function well, but the transmission slams when slowing to a stop because there are some wires (no longer connected) going to a solenoid on the automatic transmission that tells it to go into neutral when your foot is off the throttle.

Has anyone installed one of these Weber kits in an automatic transmission car and successfully attached the transmission solenoid wires to them? I noticed there is a electrical hookup on each carburetor (besides the one on the choke) that I am not sure of the purpose--could this be where I attach the transmission solenoid wires?


Also, has anyone successfully attached fuel return lines to these? I don't know if I can just attach fittings and hoses to the plugged side, opposite of the feed lines? Or... maybe the larger plugged hole at the bottom, in the center of the two?


I found that a couple of the nuts holding on the carburetors were missing, and the locknuts on the linkage were loose, also one of the vacuum advance fittings wasn't capped.


What adjustments can I do myself, and which adjustments must I not touch? I was thinking about adjusting the mixture screws until I get the maximum RPMS at idle, then adjusting the idle speed to spec. Is it just the short little linkages on each carburetor that I am not supposed to touch, otherwise they would need to be re-synched?

The carburetors seem to be taller than the Zeniths, and this makes the hose going to the air cleaner have to stretch. I am tempted to remove some of the spacers under the carburetors so they don't stand so proud.

Thanks for the help. I'll probably be reinstalling the manifolds with the carbs tomorrow.

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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:18 AM
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First photo. The electrical connection is for the fuel shutoff solenoid. open when ignition is on and they close when ignition is off. Prevents dieseling or run on. Stops fuel flow.

Second photo. The large plugged hole on the bottom contains a fuel filter (screen). Never connected a fuel line to the other plugged inlet.I think it is simply for ease of fuel line hook up for various installations.

Third Photo. Connect one vacuum fitting to your distributor. Cap the other one. Make sure the carbs are tightened down smoothly and evenly. The are prone to Vacuum leaks in this area. Do not remove the spacers, They are heat sinks to help isolate the carbs from exhaust heat to prevent Vapor lock.
Adjust your idle speed as low as you can and still keep the car running, then adjust the mixture screws for best idle.
Make absolutely that you have NO VACUUM LEAKS!! You will never get the carbs adjusted correctly with a vacuum leak.

Can't help with the Trans. hook-up. My '71 250C has manual linkage to the trans.

Check this link for more info.

CARBURETOR SET UP AND LEAN BEST IDLE ADJUSTMENT
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:40 PM
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Thanks for the information! Now I know what those extra connections are, and will disregard them. I also know now that the large plug is for the fuel screen, and there seems to be no realistic way to attach return lines, so I will omit them. I will cap the vacuum fitting on the second carburetor.

I will still need to figure out a way to hookup up an "idle switch" for the transmission.
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1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
Thanks for the information! Now I know what those extra connections are, and will disregard them. I also know now that the large plug is for the fuel screen, and there seems to be no realistic way to attach return lines, so I will omit them. I will cap the vacuum fitting on the second carburetor.

I will still need to figure out a way to hookup up an "idle switch" for the transmission.
You cant disregard the fuel shutoff solenoids. They have to be energized with 12 vdc when the key is turned on
so they will open and allow fuel to enter the carbs.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:13 PM
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I think you are going to have to jerry-rig a switch for the trans solenoid somewhere on the throttle linkage. Maybe a surplus brake light switch and a custom bracket.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbens@embarqma View Post
You cant disregard the fuel shutoff solenoids. They have to be energized with 12 vdc when the key is turned on
so they will open and allow fuel to enter the carbs.
They weren't hooked up before, and the carburetors were functioning. However, hooking them up may have the reverse effect; it will shut off the fuel when the ignition is turned off, otherwise the default position is open. I'm not sure exactly, but the car did run without them hooked up.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenterman View Post
I think you are going to have to jerry-rig a switch for the trans solenoid somewhere on the throttle linkage. Maybe a surplus brake light switch and a custom bracket.
Yeah, I guess I'll have to get creative and find a spare switch to use and make up a bracket. I am amazed that JAM and Redline didn't make provisions for this.
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1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
They weren't hooked up before, and the carburetors were functioning. However, hooking them up may have the reverse effect; it will shut off the fuel when the ignition is turned off, otherwise the default position is open. I'm not sure exactly, but the car did run without them hooked up.
Who knows? Do whatever you have to do to get it working. The proper way to check the solenoids to see if they are working is to have the car running and pull the wire off of the solenoid. If you remove them both, the car should stop running from fuel starvation. One disconnected will, of course, cause stumbling because only one carb is still getting fuel. Yours may be defective and stuck open. If so, not a problem. At least for now.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:05 PM
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Hey Squiggle -

Been there, done that. The amazing thing is that Weber (or at least Weber Redline) completely is not aware of this issue. Bottom line is you need to fabricate a microswitch that closes when the throttle is off. There is nothing in the weber carb to do this. You literally need to make something.

You can experiment by running a wire from the solenoid switch to inside the car and messing with it when you are coming to a stop and you will see and feel the difference.

Unfortunately, the shop that did this for me did it in a location that will interfere with the then-removed AC bracket. But on the fortunate side, I no longer own that car so it is not my problem.

108 auto trans clunk - 3 position solonoid - weber carbs - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:11 AM
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Now, in theory, I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do. I'll just have to figure out the best type of switch to use and find a way to mount it. I am installing air conditioning in the car, so there will be limited room. I am amazed that no one has documented this before with pictures.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
Now, in theory, I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do. I'll just have to figure out the best type of switch to use and find a way to mount it. I am installing air conditioning in the car, so there will be limited room. I am amazed that no one has documented this before with pictures.
I would have photographed the setup on my car if I had have liked it. You can get some good ideas if you google "nitrous oxide micro switch". This is going to give you a lot of choices that are setup to mount with carbs...
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:16 PM
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The other day was a bit disappointing. I had the 220S running and was attempting to set the timing.

First of all, the Operator's Manual says to set the timing at 2 degrees "BUDC" at "idle speed", whatever that is. Looking at the Factory Service Manual, it says to set the timing somewhere between 3-13 degrees at 800 RPM--different from the Operator's Manual, and very vague. Before TDC? After TDC? Who knows...? I am assuming it's before TDC. I suppose this is where Ron Bunting's advice of advancing the timing until it pings while accelerating, and then retarding it slightly comes into practice.

The engine didn't seem to idle well with the timing less retarded than 10 degrees BTDC. It idled roughly and wouldn't run at all under 900 RPM. The engine temperature also redlined, so I had to shut it down. The upper radiator hose was cool, so the newish thermostat must have been stuck. Fortunately, I heard it pop and air bubbling out in the upper hose. After this, the engine ran at normal temperature.

I had noticed that when the car was running, the fuel filter was always empty. I revved the engine and then it stumbled and shut off. I could not get it to start afterward, and the fuel filter was still empty, though after a few minutes it started to fill up, probably from gas draining back from the carburetors. I think the fuel pump is bad.

The fuel pump on the car is nice and shiny, like it is fairly new, but it must be bad as the fuel filter always looks dry and it takes lots and lots of cranking to get any fuel into the filter (and the bottom of the pump is dripping oil). After researching fuel pumps, I came to the horrible realization that new fuel pumps are no longer available anywhere. I would have to use one from a W115, which uses two push-on style hose connections, which means that I would have to cut off the end of the hard line, which is tacky, and I really don't want to do it.

Fortunately, rebuild kits are available... at $200 each! Seriously?! I guess I'm going to be forced to hodge-podge a newer pump into the car, or go electric. I'd love to somehow repair the diaphragm if it can be done.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:29 PM
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Here are pictures of the engine after I worked on it. It looks a lot better than it did before; all dirty, greasy, and rusty. I cleaned most of the parts with diesel, and scrubbed the aluminum parts with Blue Magic metal polish and a wire brush. The engine block and exhaust manifolds were rusty, so I cleaned and lightly sanded them, and then coated them with Rust Doctor, which turns the rust into magnetite, a black coating.

I painted a few parts, added an air conditioning bracket, and installed new fuel and coolant hoses with new European clamps (the coolant hose clamps have the Mercedes logo on them). The new fuel pump is on the way, with the 115 part number, so I will have to attach a hose to the end of the hard line that I resheathed so it can attach to the push-on style fitting on the new fuel pump. It's funny, because the fuel filter was empty when the engine was running, but when it stopped, it slowly filled up, probably gas draining back down from the carburetors. I looked at the fuel lines, and I think that the one I plugged is the return line back to the tank. I know there can be issues if the lines are reversed.





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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:31 PM
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The vacuum hose going to the brake booster was cracked and loose-fitting. I happened to have some leftover new power steering hose from my W116 that was a perfect fit. I replaced the cheap hose clamps with some Mercedes clamps. I went a little overboard and my roommate is definitely getting a good deal. I've spent about a solid month refurbishing the engine and have definitely earned my $350. None of the Mercedes/German shops in Phoenix would touch it because they said it was too old, and they would charge something like $3,000 if they did work on it.




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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:32 PM
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Does the attached chart help at all (re: timing)?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf timing.pdf (97.1 KB, 99 views)

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