Yet another question

i do not have access to star tek since all my computers are macs, but i did some research and felt comfortable with the info i had.

calling the dealership he gave me part # 001 094 7101 (1972 280SEL 4.5)

which with my online research brought me to bosch part # 0010 914 101

so i purchased the pump, and last night finally got around to installing. i took everything apart and the pumps don't match. they are nearly identical, with the exception of the engine side of the pump, and the overall length.

the pump that came off the car is bosch part # 0580 464 125

was just wondering if anyone could give some insight to this, maybe i have part numbers wrong? maybe the pump that was on the car is not the correct pump, and the one i bought is in fact the correct one?

old on the left, new on the right


when i look up the part number to the pump that is was on my car, these are the applications i get.

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W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg

Crafty,
I had to replace the fuel pump on my 72 280SE 4.5 a year ago. I was told the original OEM pump is no longer manufactured but the local dealership sold me a Bosch 0580464042 as MB part no. 001-091-71-01. If you search on line for this it is listed as a Porsche fuel pump. I got mine from our local dealership and it cost twice what you can get one for on line. However, it is manufactured in Germany so costs more. Not sure this helps, but good luck.

Thanks for the input!

I just went ahead and decided to use the one I bought, I'll be putting it on the car tonight so hopefully it works fine. I assume your pump worked since you are talking about it today so that makes me feel better that someone else is running the same pump.

Ready to go in!

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W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg

The 108 is a djet and uses a low pressure pump. Because of the rubber hoses and clamped connections in the fuel system, the pump has an internal relief valve to prevent overpressure in the fuel system.

It is true that the original pump is no longer built. However, Bosch have recently produced a new pump for this *application. It is on this page listed for W107/108/109/116 Bosch Automotive Tradition - Parts - Current reproduced products.

Another pump that will work, is one from a Nissan 280zx, from about 1978, i think. But new ones are apparently also in short supply.

Pumps from non djet benzes and Porches have higher pressure capability, and I believe no relief valve, so are not recommended.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

If this is the one you are referring to then it looks like the one that was on my car originally

http://www.automotive-tradition.de/en/teile/media/Produkt_Profil_EKP_0580464999_en.pdf



Are you saying the one I bought is not recommended for my car? Part # matches for my car

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W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg

The pump you had in your car is a universal Bosch pump. Despite what some sites say, that pump is most likely intended for later model cars than the Djets. It may look like the djet pump I linked, but it is not the same.

The number the dealer gave you (A001 094 7101) was not the correct MB number. EPC says it is A001 091 71 01.

EPC also says: "A001 091 71 01 may not be identical to the original part in the car. This is a repair kit that will function correctly, but will require assembly and will not resemble the part it replaces. The original part is no longer available and cannot be supplied."

The djet pump I linked to above has this same MB number (0010917101). It also provides the equivalent Bosch numbers (new and old). It is likely what you would get from dealer for the correct part number.

The other number you posted ( 0010 914 101 ) does not appear to be a Bosch number. Nothing came up when I searched for it.

The pump you bought may very well work, but it may not have the safety relief valve built in. If you have it installed, you should check if it provides the correct flow - 1 Litre/30sec when pumping against the 2 bar head that the fuel pressure regulator should be set to and with full 12V at pump.

BTW, I have been around the block several times on this and have had direct correspondence with Bosch who confirmed that their new djet pump is the one that should be used. For some reason, we don't see those pumps in NA, but you can find them on Bosch's eBay site.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Interesting .... Do the SEL has a different pump to the SE?

I have a 72 280SE 4.5L and my original pump was exactly in shape like this:
280z Fuel Pump Genuine Nissan 1975 1978 | eBay
In fact, I bought this one and been using it for more than a year.

Am I using the wrong pump?


PS: It seems part no. A0010917101 looks the same as what I'm using (the 280ZX PUMP)
http://www.everythingbenz.com/z/part/0010917101-mercedes-fuel-pump-electric-efi

And the picture on the Bosch link is different: (http://www.automotive-tradition.de/en/teile/media/Produkt_Profil_EKP_0580464999_en.pdf)

Maybe same function, different case?

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1972 W108 280SE 4.5
1977 W116 450SEL
1981 E12 528i BMW

you know what? you are correct, i had my numbers mixed up. the pump i bought is the part number you posted above.

the bosch pump that i have is a Bosch 69469

this is what i have, i am no longer sure if this is the right one?



one of the techs relayed information that the original pumps are obviously not made anymore and that these new ones will look different, information we already knew. with the links that you have posted and info i have found online i feel confident that the correct pump was on there previously, now i just want to know if this new pump is safe to run on my car. i'm not sure if this place i purchased it from is confused and have their parts mis labeled or what is going on at this point. hopefully you can shed more light on my predicament

when i search for both the bosch pumps, i see images of both the one i have now and the one i had before.

__________________
W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg

I am fairly sure that all Mercedes v-8 Djets of that era used the same pump. And it did look like the ones you posted.

It seems that that style of Bosch pump is no longer made. The company that made the Nissan pump was absorbed into Bosch and apparently also discontinued their pump. But it is possible there is NOS somewhere. I have one of those myself still new in box. It is same as the original pump. Not sure why it is Bosch 69612 vs 61405 for MB pump.

More in links in this post

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

This site blocks other vendors, but F_C_P_Gr_ot_on say that Bosch 69469 is a pump used on a VW . It doesn't seem like the right pump.

pump

If you want to be sure, why not give Bosch USA a call. Or email Bosch in Germany. This is the address: Automotive-Tradition@de.bosch.com . However, they told me that their new djet pump is 0 580 454 999 (the one in the pdf I linked previously).

If proper djet pumps with relief built in were unobtainable, I think I would use a later model pump with proper capacity and add a relief valve on a tee right after the pump set at about 35-40psig, and have it recycle back to the suction side of the pump or the tank.

This is a diagram of the original djet fuel pump. Fuel flow from tank enters axially from right side into pump which then discharged fuel around pump motor windings and then out the side. As you can see, there is a check valve to stop backflow from the injectors supply line when pump turns off. And there is the internal relief valve that returns fuel to the pump suction if the discharge pressure exceeds some level. We don't know what that level is, but clamped hose connections are probably not good for much over 50 psig before they will leak. Not having seen one, I don't know how they achieved the relief on the new style djet pump.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

so i called Bosch USA and they were no help, he said he didn't show any replacements for this pump, he could not identify the part # 0580 454 999, nor did he give me any info on the bosch # 69469

i guess i will try my luck emailing the bosch of germany, are they pretty responsive?

i am curious as to what fuel pump peach parts sells? they do have a fuel pump kit listed but it does not break down the individual parts #

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W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg

i called back and spoke to someone else

they don't have that part number because it is European bosch... makes sense.

he gave me the specs on the on the # 69469

he said it runs at 36.25 PSI w/ flow rate of 38 gallons per hour and he said it does have a built in check valve, i'm not sure if that is a different term for relief valve or if they are two completely different things. even the the pump had too much pressure wouldn't the FPR regulate the pressure going into the injectors?

you think i am ok to run this one?

__________________
W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg

To be honest, I had similar experience with Bosch USA and even worse with Bosch Canada.

Bosch Tradition (the link I gave you) were very responsive.

Funnily enough, Bosch Tradition were not aware of the JECS Unisia pump I had bought in Bosch box with number 69612. They thought it might be a pirate part. But they checked it out for me and confirmed that it was a pump sourced directly from Japan by Bosch USA. So yes, they were helpful.

You can buy the 0580 454 999 pump on Bosch's eBay site.


Elektrokraftstoffpumpe, Inline ohne Teile Bosch 0580464999 EKP-3-D+

The above link has a great part cross reference that could help those looking for a used pump that might work.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

They are probably talking about the check valve that prevents back flow through the pump. The relief valve on the djet pump prevents the pump from over-pressurizing the fuel rails and rubber hose connections.

These fuel pumps are positive pumps and won't produce any pressure at all unless a restriction is placed downstream. In the case of the djets, this restriction is mainly the FPR.

So we set the FPR so that we have 29 or so psig in the fuel rail. There is no problem, UNLESS something blocks the FPR, the damper, the return line or the inlet to the swirl pot in the tank.

Bosch/MB must have felt this could happen, so provided a pump that could not build enough pressure to overpressure the clamped rubber hose joints.

It will be interesting to know what Bosch Tradition say about using the 69469 pump. It would put out a lot more than 36.25 psig if the FPR or piping is blocked.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

The Bosch eBay site you linked to goes to part bob is that the correct site to buy from?

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W211 '03 E320 | W108 '72 280SEL 4.5

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps9b542eaa.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps5723c50f.jpg