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  #16  
Old 09-04-2015, 08:22 AM
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Question: Anyone here ever actually lose the back on a swing axle car?

Yes; one learns quickly not to let off on the throttle part way through a turn
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2015, 10:54 PM
Tony
 
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This looks like the limit of adhesion
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Anyone here ever actually lose the back on a swing axle car?-mercedes-280-se-coup-w-111-729x486-00245d4a94735af1.jpg  
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2015, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony H View Post
This looks like the limit of adhesion
That's amazing, your car? I'd love to share this with the Coupe Group if you don't object.
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  #19  
Old 09-07-2015, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony H View Post
This looks like the limit of adhesion
Naaah! Stick ya foot down you can get it to lean more than that!
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2015, 12:22 AM
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It's just a picture I found on Yahoo
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  #21  
Old 09-12-2015, 12:17 AM
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I believe the movie is 'The Driver', 1976, starring Ryan O Neal as the one demonstrating his a getaway driver skills in an underground parking garage. The car is a W108, I'm thinking 250S or early 280S, with a crappy canary-yellow repaint.
You can see the original cream color after the rear bumper gets torn off during one of the 'stunts'.

I have a late '60s Chilton Mdrcedes manual that states "radial tires are not recommended for Mercedes models with swing-axles."
Though having driven an early Fintail 220S, with Pirelli radials, for a few years, I never had issues with the handling, and believe the Mercedes low-pivot axle, coupled with not having an engine in the rear, did not have the potential cornering problems of the early Corvairs and Porsche 911s.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2015, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony H View Post
It's just a picture I found on Yahoo
That's a shame I imagined it was on your wall of fame in the man cave!
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro View Post
I believe the movie is 'The Driver', 1976, starring Ryan O Neal as the one demonstrating his a getaway driver skills in an underground parking garage. The car is a W108, I'm thinking 250S or early 280S, with a crappy canary-yellow repaint.
You can see the original cream color after the rear bumper gets torn off during one of the 'stunts'.

Happy Motoring, Mark

THat's it, couldn't remember the title.

Link:

http://youtu.be/L78AwbNthF8
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2015, 12:46 PM
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I took a couple runs in a Corvair at an Auto-X and that went as expected. If you brake and turn the back end comes out. Once you realize you need to separate the two entirely and actually be on throttle as soon as you can in a corner its not bad. Rather understeer when you ask too much of it, like most "modern" cars, it will get the ass out.
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2015, 02:14 PM
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RE "The Driver", that's an odd way to interview for a job. Waste of a nice 108!
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by joshhol View Post
RE "The Driver", that's an odd way to interview for a job. Waste of a nice 108!
After ripping off the door, bumper and exhaust, then smashing the front-end & trunk, the car finishes off caving in the roof by passing under a lumber-carrier.
I have that clip on a VHS tape I mixed many years ago containing many chase & crash scenes from various movies & TV-shows, titled 'Driver Training'.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #27  
Old 09-16-2015, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro View Post
I have a late '60s Chilton Mdrcedes manual that states "radial tires are not recommended for Mercedes models with swing-axles."
Radial tires were in their infancy WRT acceptance in the USA in the late sixties.

Dad had a set of Michelins on a 67 Pontiac Bonneville. They replaced the original set of tires, so at this time very few people were even aware of what they were. I can clearly remember riding in the car, and constantly getting bombarded by helpful folk pointing out our tires were flat!

I got my license in 1971, and since I was working at the lower end of the wage scale, my choice of tires was cost driven.... but I can clearly remember the epiphany I had when I transitioned from recap bias ply tires to used radial tires. It was amazing how much grip they had compared to the bias ply tires.

I suggest that this was the reason there were warnings about radial tires on swing axle cars. The greatly increased grip would keep the tire from sliding, and this further exacerbated the tuck under and lift issues. Personally, I ignored the conventional wisdom and fitted Michelin ZX radials to 59 190SL in 74. By then I could afford decent tires.......

Jim
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  #28  
Old 09-16-2015, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxC107 View Post
I took a couple runs in a Corvair at an Auto-X and that went as expected. If you brake and turn the back end comes out. Once you realize you need to separate the two entirely and actually be on throttle as soon as you can in a corner its not bad. Rather understeer when you ask too much of it, like most "modern" cars, it will get the ass out.
Sounds like the go-karts I sometimes race. On some very tight turns you can use this "feature" to rotate the kart through the corner. On bigger turns you just do whatever braking needs done before turn-in and then get on the throttle after the apex.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimFreeh View Post
Radial tires were in their infancy WRT acceptance in the USA in the late sixties.

Dad had a set of Michelins on a 67 Pontiac Bonneville. They replaced the original set of tires, so at this time very few people were even aware of what they were. I can clearly remember riding in the car, and constantly getting bombarded by helpful folk pointing out our tires were flat!

I got my license in 1971, and since I was working at the lower end of the wage scale, my choice of tires was cost driven.... but I can clearly remember the epiphany I had when I transitioned from recap bias ply tires to used radial tires. It was amazing how much grip they had compared to the bias ply tires.

I suggest that this was the reason there were warnings about radial tires on swing axle cars. The greatly increased grip would keep the tire from sliding, and this further exacerbated the tuck under and lift issues. Personally, I ignored the conventional wisdom and fitted Michelin ZX radials to 59 190SL in 74. By then I could afford decent tires.......

Jim
For years I ran bias-plies (though never recaps) on my Ponton 180b, mostly because of cost, but also partly because of that warning in my Chilton manual. One time I tried upgrading to glass-belted bias tires, but that wasn't much of an improvement. Even later, when I could afford radials on my newer cars, I continued to run bias-plies on the Mercedes.
Finally, in the late '80s, my Ponton needed tires, and I found a decent set of used 13" radials. I was literally shocked at the improvement in cornering, steering and tracking on that car, especially as how I had suffered with those crappy bias-plies for so long.
My Fintail 220S came with the PO's Pirelli radials. Those tires were superb on that car. Maybe the lack of an engine in the trunk helped, but I never felt uncomfortable, occasionally pushing that car a bit in the corners.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 09-16-2015 at 01:54 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-16-2015, 07:05 PM
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Some tire dynamics.

Bias ply tires have a stiff sidewall and soft tread. This is why they don't look flat and the unloaded tread has a pretty hefty crown. The tread is constantly scrubbing the pavement causing accelerated wear and grip issues.

Radial tires have a soft sidewall and stiff tread. This is why they look flat and have a nearly flat tread. The tread is mostly just rolling along and the sidewalls are flexing but not rubbing against anything.

We need flex in the system somewhere because otherwise we would have a very thin line of contact with the road ( steel wheel on a hard surface. )

If we have soft tread and sidewall, we end up with a drag race tire than winds up the sidewall to give more mechanical gear reduction due to the radius shrinking and a tire grows at speed giving an overdrive of sorts.
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