Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Vintage Mercedes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #286  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:19 AM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Making some good progress on the interior. I've finished fabricating the wood dash pieces to fit, including the center piece. It looks like I'm going to be able to use the existing upper and lower center console, but majorly modified.

I'm going to use a 2 DIN stereo so I cut out part of the center of the upper center console to fit it. I fabricated a steel piece to hold the stereo and the lower portion will hold the hazard switch and USB power point for cell charging and radio connection. This panel will also be covered with matching ebony veneer.

The veneer arrived today. Looks really close to stock. The one piece has some water on it to bring out the color. Planning on having the veneer mated to the parts, stained and clear coated by the end of the weekend.

I was finally able to find a new brake master cylinder reservoir and installed. If I can only find a windshield washer reservoir.

I had a appointment to get the alignment done today, but their best mechanic wasn't in so now pushed to Friday.

But actually worked out. The Flaming River rack needs less flow and pressure than the stock GM power steering pump puts out. I had installed a shim kit to lower the pressure. But the steering was still too soft and for some reason the steering pulled to the right even when sitting. Would actually turn the wheels all the way to the left.

An employee of Turn One Steering, on another forum, advised using one of their flow reducers. I ordered and it arrived yesterday. So with my day messed up I installed and did a little more self alignment. The new part fixed the problem and the alignment moves made it much more drivable, can't wait to get it professionally done.








Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 07-12-2017, 09:59 AM
Dubyagee's Avatar
All fields are required
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE
Posts: 1,677
This is great. I was thinking of a modern drive train in my 420. Maybe a 5.3/4L60e.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:05 PM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyagee View Post
This is great. I was thinking of a modern drive train in my 420. Maybe a 5.3/4L60e.
More and modern power is almost always better!

This has been more work than I originally imagined, and I've done a couple engine swaps.

If all goes well on the alignment Friday I'll be able to give a better review of the end result, last hurdle.

After a couple of tweaks yesterday the car felt more like it used to, but with way more power. The front end feels a little heavy. In the next week or so I will have it weighed again to see if real or imagined.

I might be regretting not spending the extra for an aluminum block.
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:08 PM
Dubyagee's Avatar
All fields are required
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE
Posts: 1,677
Adding some weight in the back should help. Definitely making me want to start researching the swap.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:20 AM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyagee View Post
Adding some weight in the back should help. Definitely making me want to start researching the swap.


Thanks for commenting. If you have the time and patience definitely go for it!

I removed the spare tire and the associated well for it, needed the room for the passenger side exhaust. Then moved the battery to the trunk, however more forward. So probably close to a wash as far as weight. But I will be building in an enclosure for a pair of subs and back boxes for the rear deck speakers that will a little weight to the rear.

Finished laminating the veneer to the dash pieces. You can see how the grain follows through all the pieces, including the new piece for the center. Now on to staining and high gloss finish.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 07-17-2017, 03:33 PM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
The alignment went well Friday. I didn't mess things up too much, except maybe castor adjustment. Car still doesn't feel exactly right. Tomorrow I'm going to have it weighed again to see if that is part of the problem. Obviously I have plenty of power, but bumping the throttle makes the front tires screech too. Any ideas?





Driven 27 miles so far, will start driving daily to start troubleshooting.

Made some good progress on the wood dash pieces. After making stain samples, one natural, one coffee, one coffee and 25% black dye, one coffee and 50% black dye. I decided on the coffee and 50% black dye.





After staining I shot 3 coats of sanding sealer, with one stage sanding between coast 1 and 2. Then took the pieces home and started cutting all the holes for everything. I decided I'm going to put the new AC controls below the head unit instead of in the middle of the dash, I think will make it look cleaner.



Will take a few more rounds of sanding and sanding sealer to fill all the grain before applying the top coats. Nice that I have access to cabinet shop with all the tools and and a paint booth!

The head unit is Alpine's newest iLX-107, just started shipping. It's designed for Apple iPhone and connects wirelessly via WiFi. I also ordered a backup camera.
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,976
Quote:
Car still doesn't feel exactly right.
Does the steering feel like you turn the wheel and nothing happens then for a bit it quickly steers then when you turn the farther it noes nothing again?

Do you have one u joint or two in the system?

In an older post you spoke of the steering spinning on it's own, did you contact the rack maker and if so , what did they say?

If the steering joint is at a severe angle, that effect will occur. Take a socket universal joint that looks like a steering joint, angle is over then turn one end while watching rotation of the other. At some point you will be able to turn the input and the output won't turn / turns slowly. When you turn farther, the output will turn faster than the input.

Did you check "bump steer" and " ackerman " ?
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:20 PM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Does the steering feel like you turn the wheel and nothing happens then for a bit it quickly steers then when you turn the farther it noes nothing again?

Do you have one u joint or two in the system?

In an older post you spoke of the steering spinning on it's own, did you contact the rack maker and if so , what did they say?

If the steering joint is at a severe angle, that effect will occur. Take a socket universal joint that looks like a steering joint, angle is over then turn one end while watching rotation of the other. At some point you will be able to turn the input and the output won't turn / turns slowly. When you turn farther, the output will turn faster than the input.

Did you check "bump steer" and " ackerman " ?
Thanks for your reply.

Steering is tight, no issue there. The flow reducer by Turn One solved the problem with the rack moving on its own while idling.

While driving I'm not seeing any bump steer. The tie rod lengths are the same as stock and the height of the inner tie rod ends is running within and inch of stock.

I shortened the steering arms a couple inches to maintain stock turning radius with the shorter range of the rack and pinion. The stock steering arms were slightly curved inward to the tie rod. When I shortened them I probably lost maybe 1/2" of this bend. But Ackerman mainly deals with turning correct?

My issue is how the car "feels", so hard to describe. Final weight will help guide the troubleshooting. The car feels a little heavy and doesn't feel "solid". Some could be that I've only driven the car 27 miles so far and used to my other cars. But weird that the front tie (passenger) screeches when I get on it. Could the frame twist enough under load temporarily pull the alignment out?
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 07-18-2017, 04:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
Thanks for your reply.

Steering is tight, no issue there. The flow reducer by Turn One solved the problem with the rack moving on its own while idling.
Do the u joint thing I described to get a sense of what I'm talking about.
Then turn the steering wheel while watching the steering shaft and rack input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
While driving I'm not seeing any bump steer. The tie rod lengths are the same as stock and the height of the inner tie rod ends is running within and inch of stock.
Bump steer is checked by removing the suspension spring, bolting a plate to the hub , locking the steering wheel straight, placing 2 measuring devices on the plate then cycling the suspension through full compression and droop. The change in toe from normal ride height is the amount of bump steer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
I shortened the steering arms a couple inches to maintain stock turning radius with the shorter range of the rack and pinion. The stock steering arms were slightly curved inward to the tie rod. When I shortened them I probably lost maybe 1/2" of this bend. But Ackerman mainly deals with turning correct?
Yes, Ackerman comes into play when turning. The inside wheel is turned at a sharper angle than the outside resulting in some toe out. They didn't measure Turning angle difference ( Ackerman / toe out on turns ), having this info would be helpful in determining if the rack change was OK. ( Along with a bump steer check )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
My issue is how the car "feels", so hard to describe. Final weight will help guide the troubleshooting. The car feels a little heavy and doesn't feel "solid". Some could be that I've only driven the car 27 miles so far and used to my other cars. But weird that the front tie (passenger) screeches when I get on it. Could the frame twist enough under load temporarily pull the alignment out?

The caster measurement is far below spec, this would give the car a wandering feeling but not a heavy feel.

If the car was bending that much, the doors would not open. Are one of the accessory pulleys rubbing something? Have you placed the trans in drive, held the brakes on then brought the engine up to 2,000 RPM or so to see if the noise occurs?
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:50 PM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Thanks for all the detailed info!

On the steering input I only have one double u-joint, new. There is no "slop" between steering wheel input to wheel movement.

I'm not reading any bump steer, and been over some dips big enough for that to have shown itself.

I've got to look at why the adjustment of the castor bottomed out. Nothing I did should have had any impact on that.

I've had the car on the dyno for a couple hours for break-in, up to 75% throttle, no noises or extreme vibrations.

After posting on Monday, I started thinking about tire pressure. I had the pressure at 30 lbs and bumped up to 36 lbs and drove it yesterday to get it weighed. That solved about 75% of the "feel". Going to spend some time today to research correct air pressure now that I have the weight. Rest of the problem could be shocks and maybe springs. Plans to bag the car, more research ahead.

FYI, before I started this project I took the car to have it weighed. With 1/2 tank of gas the car weighed 1760 front, 1400 rear, 3140 total.

Now, after the swap, same scale, 1/2 tank gas, 1880 front, 1420 rear, 3300 total.

So I've added 120 lbs to the front and 20 lbs to the rear. I should have gone with an aluminum block, would have been almost exactly the same weight!

But while driving yesterday my oil leak popped back up. I think I'm going to have to change the oil pan. The remote filter connection at the pan is defective. Sucks too, I was just getting momentum again!
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 07-19-2017, 06:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post

On the steering input I only have one double u-joint, new. There is no "slop" between steering wheel input to wheel movement.
Is there a pic of this joint installed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
I'm not reading any bump steer, and been over some dips big enough for that to have shown itself.
Is this what you did to check bump steer? If not, you are just guessing.

Technical Articles
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 07-19-2017, 07:52 PM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Is there a pic of this joint installed?



Is this what you did to check bump steer? If not, you are just guessing.

Technical Articles
Here is the pic of the input shaft

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-img_2316.jpg very short run from column, through firewall bearing support, then a double U-joint into the rack.

As to bump steer. I made the new tie rod ends the same length, plus a smidge, as the stock ones (as the long amount of adjustment of the tie rod ends can affect overall length I made the body about a half inch longer to be on the safe side). When I made my "travel bar" I made the center between the tie rod ends the same distance as what was on the stock idle arm (not sure if that is the right term). The travel bar runs within 1" of the same location, both height and front/rear as the previous idle arm. From the beginning I took a lot of pics and measurents to be able to keep the steering functioning as before.

Let me know what you think.
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 07-20-2017, 04:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,976
If the steering joint angles don't match , the effect I describe can occur on the end with more angle.

Using a drive shaft as an example, as the trans output rotates at a constant speed, the drive shaft is constantly accelerating and decelerating as the u joint rotates. The rear u joint is in phase and hopefully at the same angle as the front, this causes the output end to regain constant speed.

The ratchet u joint and extension model is the best way to understand this process.

The reason CV ( Constant Velocity ) joints mostly found on front drive cars are called CV joints because the don't cause this speed up / slow down effect when bent on an angle.

With as much as you have changed in steering linkage, check rather than guess. An inch up / down + Forward / reverse + shorter steering arms = an unknown amount of bump steer

Here is another link.

Technical Articles
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 07-20-2017, 05:51 PM
Tomguy's Avatar
Vintage Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not where I want to
Posts: 4,983
Beautiful work and updates!
Is it possible the subframe itself is flexing under heavier throttle, when the vehicle is moving? Maybe a GoPro or some cheap alternative camera mounted around that area could shed some light on what's going on.
__________________
Current:
1999 Chrysler 300M (Click for pic) - 207,xxx - totalled by Nationwide for $1600 in damage. Being rebuilt better.
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (Click for pic) - 32,xxx

My Mercedes Benz 108 109 resource site
August 2014 newsletter live.

Previous: 1972 280SE 4.5 "Quicksilver", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi"
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 07-21-2017, 03:38 PM
Coasttocoast's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 261
Thanks guys for taking the time to comment.

I'm going to be down for a bit again as I have to change the oil pan. To get the pans swapped requires me raising the engine up about 2 1/2". This means pulling exhaust, master cylinder, engine brace, motor mounts, etc. so there goes my next two weekends.
__________________
"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page