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  #76  
Old 07-15-2016, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomguy View Post
FYI it'll also reduce bump steer if you do mount the ends closer to the spindle. Basic leverage principles apply (the lever to push the tie rods is longer when it's further from the spindle, thus bumps more easily can mess with your steering angle). Killing two birds with one stone = good.
Thanks again for your comments.

As I haven't been able to find any published similar conversions everything at this stage is speculation. I'll spend part of Saturday working out some of the details. I ordered the rack yesterday from an Oreily and will be able to pick up close to home tomorrow. I'll continue to post my progress.

I received the call today that my engine is ready to be picked up at the dock. Yea!
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  #77  
Old 07-15-2016, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
The Chevy Cobalt replaced the J body so I'd have a look at one of those to see if the rack is similar.

The late 80's J body could have been had in a 1.8 and 2.0 OHC turbo so there is a small chance of a faster ratio rack.
Appreciate the continued replies.

I have ordered the Cavalier rack, will be playing with it Saturday.

They has two different ratios available, 2.5:1 and 2.8:1. I read some posts by others that they felt the 2.5:1 was too fast, so I ordered the 2.8:1.

We will see in a couple months if I have regrets. But at less than $100 for either one, not much of a risk.
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  #78  
Old 07-15-2016, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
Appreciate the continued replies.

I have ordered the Cavalier rack, will be playing with it Saturday.

They has two different ratios available, 2.5:1 and 2.8:1. I read some posts by others that they felt the 2.5:1 was too fast, so I ordered the 2.8:1.

We will see in a couple months if I have regrets. But at less than $100 for either one, not much of a risk.

Too fast or slow is relative to the length of the steering arms at the spindles. Longer steering arms will give slower steering.
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  #79  
Old 07-17-2016, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Too fast or slow is relative to the length of the steering arms at the spindles. Longer steering arms will give slower steering.
Yes, both play a roll. In the extreme a rack that required 10 turns lock to lock would be much slower than one that only took 1 turn lock to lock.

And in the case of this Mercedes there is even one more variable. The pitman arm and the ???arm on the passenger side leverage/increase the distance of travel also.

Yesterday I re-installed the steering box and connected the drag link and tie rod to map out the sweep and location of the inner tie rod points to be able to duplicate with the rack and pinion. The sweep of the pitman arm moves the drag link a total of 6 3/8". Yet, because of the leveraged way the tie rods are connected to the drag link, the tie rods actually move a total of 8 1/4".

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg
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  #80  
Old 07-17-2016, 01:51 PM
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As I mentioned, yesterday I mapped out the location and travel of the drag link/inner tie rod ends to be able to duplicate with the new rack and pinion.

Lucky for me the existing drag link is mounted level with the car and runs in a straight line. Although it moves slightly forward and slightly rearward, from center, due to the arch/swing of the pitman and ???arm.

Now that I have a map, so to speak, I removed the balance of the old steering system. This weighed a total of 8 lbs, plus the 35 lbs for the steering box = 43 lbs total.

I have to say that the existing system was pretty well designed. When driving the car I never thought it needed to be replaced. Now I will have to live with a larger turning radius or modify the steering arms at the spindle to get it back.

Here is my "map" probably won't make sense to anyone else. But I took my reference points from the engine mount location on top of the crossmember, outside bolt location, and the center of the crossmember.

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg
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  #81  
Old 07-17-2016, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
Yesterday I re-installed the steering box and connected the drag link and tie rod to map out the sweep and location of the inner tie rod points to be able to duplicate with the rack and pinion. The sweep of the pitman arm moves the drag link a total of 6 3/8". Yet, because of the leveraged way the tie rods are connected to the drag link, the tie rods actually move a total of 8 1/4".

Attachment 137278
There is no need to move the tie rod attachment points on the rack out to the width of the original ones on the pitman/idler arms. The travel will be the same with a center connection or an outboard connection. The twisting and bending loads on the rack, however, would be substantially increased in the case of outboard connections; and that is why the tie rod connections are at the center.
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  #82  
Old 07-17-2016, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Reiner View Post
There is no need to move the tie rod attachment points on the rack out to the width of the original ones on the pitman/idler arms. The travel will be the same with a center connection or an outboard connection. The twisting and bending loads on the rack, however, would be substantially increased in the case of outboard connections; and that is why the tie rod connections are at the center.
Frank thanks for your comments.

I understand that the travel will be the same, but I understand that changing the location of the inner tie rod end would change bump steer. Am I incorrect?

Seems pretty common in these swaps to build a bracket to locate the inner tie rods.
'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg
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  #83  
Old 07-17-2016, 11:56 PM
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Since the engine gets delivered to my house tomorrow I figured I better get some more prep done today.

Pulled out the steering column, removed all the sound deadening, and cleaned all the glue residue from the front floorboard and firewall.

Then I found a couple more spots of rust.

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg
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  #84  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:00 AM
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Eventually you have to stop tearing things apart, cleaning and actually start moving forward and building!

Since I was in the footwell I might as well start there. Made a cardboard template of the first area of rust to cut out, then cut the patch, then cut the hole.

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg
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  #85  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:06 AM
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Then weld it in.

I'll be the first to admit I'm a very novice welder. I have a small Lincoln 120v gas less welder. Since I have done a couple projects I've learned to make sure to cut the pieces as close together as possible and "stitch" the pieces together. With spreading out the welds to keep from warping the panels. Been a couple years since I had the welder out, so the floor boards was a good place to get in some practice time.

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg
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  #86  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:13 AM
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Since I had out all the tools and had pre cut the firewall panels I tacked on a couple

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg

I'll fit and tack the last panel before I test fit the engine so I have a point to mark and measure from.
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  #87  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
Frank thanks for your comments.

I understand that the travel will be the same, but I understand that changing the location of the inner tie rod end would change bump steer. Am I incorrect?

Seems pretty common in these swaps to build a bracket to locate the inner tie rods.
Attachment 137323
Changing the height of the inner (and/or outer) tie rod end will change the bump steer characteristics; making the tie rods longer tends to mitigate the amount of steering change in bump (or droop).
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  #88  
Old 07-19-2016, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank Reiner View Post
Changing the height of the inner (and/or outer) tie rod end will change the bump steer characteristics; making the tie rods longer tends to mitigate the amount of steering change in bump (or droop).
Ok, good to know.

Anyone know where I can buy the brackets to hold the Cavalier rack and pinion? I can't find a part number on GM parts websites, none on EBay, and I've asked a couple of the junk yards I've bought parts from. Zip so far.
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  #89  
Old 07-22-2016, 02:25 AM
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Been a very busy week at work, but also busy with parts coming in for this build.

The engine assembly came in. Although I bought it out of Alabama you can definitely tell the truck spent most of its time up north.

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg

Excited to start striping it down and getting it fit.
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  #90  
Old 07-22-2016, 02:34 AM
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Motor mounts arrived along with a front sump oil pan. With the pan I can fit it in my best estimated location and give a basis for further measurements before I keep trying to put it in and take it out.

The crossmember had to be severely notched. Going to take some planning to not only put the strength back but make it stronger.

'69 230 build w/LQ4 swap-image.jpeg

The motor mounts I bought are of a similar design as the outgoing ones. So my plan it to mount in the same location.
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