Fintail Ponderings. Oh - Is there a better way?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

meltedpanda · #1 08-19-2016, 09:16 AM

As many of you know I am getting Dolly ,my 62 Fintail back on the road. As I have worked through the the various systems ,spoken to many of you and enlisted help as well. I can't help to ponder on several of the systems that have been most challenging,especially for the early models . The one that has plagued me the most and is, in my mind , the most critical for safe vintage motoring are the brakes and the infamous booster , single master system

Hence this thread. Considering the number of cars made and those now being refurbished I can't be the only one that has thought. " is there a better way or a modern retrofit".
I have searched but have not found any especially for the early models. I am sure there are other systems or issues that have found successful work arounds. Post them here ,questions or ideas. And by all means if you have retrofitted an old Finny with a newer brake system. Be the first to inspire us!

muleears · #2 08-19-2016, 09:31 PM

Great post and great suggestion Ron. My finney has a modified braking system but it is as yet unidentified. It is not the factory system, I know that. Whether it is better or not is yet to be determined. I will take some close-ups of the system installed and post them here tomorrow. Maybe you or Jeffrey or someone else can ID it. At the moment, the system does not work (there is no fluid in it) but I have not investigated any of its problems yet. Hopefully, together we can come up with a simple and effective mod for these braking systems.

meltedpanda · #3 08-19-2016, 11:10 PM

Does you car have 4 wheel drums?

muleears · #4 08-20-2016, 10:09 AM

Not sure about the fronts Ron, the way I have the back jacked up right now the front is on the ground and I can't see them. Hopefully later today I'll have a definitive answer. In the meantime I took some pics of the Frankenstein braking system I have.

First pic is over all shot

Second is the MC and reservoir and part of the booster

Third is the fabricated bracket holding the booster to the firewall

last for this post is the other side of the MC and part of the booster, underneath you can barely see a manifold(?) that splits (or joins) a couple of the brake lines. I'll see if I can get a better pic later.

I'll post a few more shortly, comments on what this is are welcome!

muleears · #5 08-20-2016, 10:51 AM

The pic is of the "manifold" that sits below the MC and in front of the booster. Kind of hard to see its in a shadow.

Last is another overall pic. You can see that manifold again beneath the MC. This one also shows another splitter(?) below the vacuum line, it has three hard lines going to/from it.

Again, any input is welcome!

meltedpanda · #6 08-20-2016, 12:19 PM

Wow that is interesting. I read somewhere that one of the issues was getting a MS to fit on the fire wall because of the clutch resevior, looks like someone figured out a way around that. That is a dual system. Is it running drums all the way around or discs front drum back. Was it working? Or is that an unknown?

meltedpanda · #7 08-20-2016, 12:21 PM

How many lines off the MS? Is there a name or part number on any of it? I'd say that manifold part is to help limit or balance pressure front and back

muleears · #8 08-20-2016, 04:50 PM

The MC only has two lines coming out of it and they both go to that manifold beneath. I have to double check but i think there is only one line coming out of the bottom of the manifold, which makes no sense, unless that second manifold is the one that splits front to rear (if that's how it splits) I have an errand to run now, I will investigate and post further findings later today. Thanks for the input.

meltedpanda · #9 08-20-2016, 08:37 PM

Manifold has to split to 4 lines somewhere. On another note I wonder where one finds new drums for these ol gals

Mike D · #10 08-20-2016, 11:11 PM

Usually the fitting on the frame splits three ways. One to each front cylinder and one to rear supply. This is then split at the rear axle to supply both rear cylinders. The "manifold" is not a manifold, it is a proportioning valve.

There needs to be at least 5 lines leading to the fitting if you are using a dual chamber master cylinder. Two are supply from the cylinder, one to the LF, one for the RF and one for the rear which is then split at the axle.

muleears · #11 08-21-2016, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

Usually the fitting on the frame splits three ways. One to each front cylinder and one to rear supply. This is then split at the rear axle to supply both rear cylinders. The "manifold" is not a manifold, it is a proportioning valve.

There needs to be at least 5 lines leading to the fitting if you are using a dual chamber master cylinder. Two are supply from the cylinder, one to the LF, one for the RF and one for the rear which is then split at the axle.

Thanks Mike, I'll try today to trace some of the lines, They aren't easy to follow. I know there are only two that leave the MC, plus I have one from the clutch MC that I need to keep separate. I'll try to get some pics too. Thanks for the information.

Mike D · #12 08-21-2016, 09:21 AM

The five lines information applies mainly to disc brake systems due to the amount of fluid needed to pressurize the calipers.

Older converted systems such as yours may only use 2 output lines. The front may be split by a separate proportioning valve. This would be only four lines leading to the proportioning valve. Two supply and two out puts.

strelnik · #13 08-21-2016, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

The five lines information applies mainly to disc brake systems due to the amount of fluid needed to pressurize the calipers.

Older converted systems such as yours may only use 2 output lines. The front may be split by a separate proportioning valve. This would be only four lines leading to the proportioning valve. Two supply and two out puts.

I have owned a 62 220 and a 67 230S, as well as 4 x 190s or 200s of early 60s vintage.

The smaller (190-200) cars were all drum brakes.
Both of my larger fintails had front disc brakes and rear drums.

I can't speak as to whether the 1962 front brakes were original, I would have to do some looking. Two issues: The Euor cars did have features different from the USA cars, don't ask me why, in those days no one worried about safety, the 230S had no seat belts.

I have read and do not know for sure that front brake drums could be retrofitted with front disc brake systems from the W108 series, but I have never checked this out, since the only 220 I now have is from 1952. And yes, it has a weird Frankenstein brake booster, whichy I might replace with a vacuum pump for sfaety's sake, have not started resto on that car. Some of the Ponton guys on the yahoo website and forum may know.

I'll check in my German references to see what I can find, but you might want to call the Classics Center for info. That's free.

muleears · #14 08-21-2016, 01:34 PM

Great information gentlemen. Thank you.

This poorly modified pic of the splitter shows what I have determined so far.

The "in" line is coming from the bottom of the proportioning valve. The other two go to each front wheel as denoted.

The second line from the bottom of the proportioning valve dives down the firewall and heads to the back of the car. Presumably to another splitter for the rear wheels.

Thanks again for all your input, it is beginning to make sense now.