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  #16  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:10 PM
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Thanks Frank. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2016, 10:53 PM
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That trapped volume around the spark plug area has to be terrible for emissions. What were they trying to accomplish?

It looks like someone was trying to make a gas engine from a diesel then ran out of places to increase the chamber volume and needed to bring a spark plug into the chamber.
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2017, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
That trapped volume around the spark plug area has to be terrible for emissions. What were they trying to accomplish?

It looks like someone was trying to make a gas engine from a diesel then ran out of places to increase the chamber volume and needed to bring a spark plug into the chamber.
The M130 is basically an evolution of the M180, introduced 1951, not a diesel, but don't forget that emissions were not a big deal when this family of engines was designed.
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  #19  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:41 AM
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Feeling a little bored today, I went to loosen the crankshaft nut on the seized M130 engine, and lo and behold the engine turned; it's no longer seized. A few days ago I put a mixture of brake fluid and marvel mystery oil on top of the pistons, so I don't know if that did the trick.

Cylinder walls 1 to 4 look good. I can still see the cross hatch design, and there is no ridge at the top of the bores from wear. Cylinders 5 and 6 may need machining or new sleeves, so tomorrow I am going to take the head and photos of the cylinders to a machine shop for an evaluation and quote.


Is it possible / sensible to re-sleeve only two cylinders?

On each piston, from back to front, was etched:
156
0793
86.97
Sp 0.03

One piston had 0686 instead of 0793. Anyone know the significance of those numbers?

I don't see how the head gasket can seal properly with that "cooling groove" between the cylinders, with hot pressurized coolant pushing up on it . How deep is that groove? Is it possible to put a tube in its place and weld the block deck shut? I know it's a crazy idea, but know I know why the M130 has the head gasket leak reputation.
Attached Thumbnails
M130 Engine-m130-cyl-2.jpg   M130 Engine-m130-cyl-1.jpg   M130 Engine-m130-cyl-4-5.jpg   M130 Engine-m130-cyls-4-5-6.jpg   M130 Engine-m130-head-gasket.jpg  

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  #20  
Old 01-23-2017, 09:18 PM
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That groove is also used on the M103 and M104 90's inline 6 without causing much of an issue.

Before you start turning the engine over in complete revolutions, clean the bores to prevent scratching of the pistons.

The shop will likely need to see the actual bores to determine if they can be used again. As for sleeving a single cylinder, this is very common. However, the more that need sleeved the more likely a replacement block becomes attractive due to increasing cost.

Measure the bores and pistons, if this engine was rebuilt with larger pistons you could get your other block bored to fit the larger pistons.
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  #21  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:56 PM
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thx for ur comments 97 sl320.

Yes, I am trying not to rotate the crankshaft to save the pistons and rings, but the "torque converter" is still bolted to the flex plate.

I have put the engine on its side with the intent of removing the oil pan, and maybe sliding the pistons out the bottom of the block. Hmmm, not sure if they will be able to pass the crank though.

Anyone know how many bolts hold on the oil pan? It seems like a million.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2017, 07:44 PM
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Pistons generally won't come out of the bottom of the block even with the crank out. Though I did do this once with a V6 Buick that needed a single connecting rod replacement / crankshaft and by chance the bad one was the only one with block clearance.

I'd use medium / light scotch brite to gently clean the bores up to remove any high rust spots before removing pistons from the top. Use a vacuum then clean the grit out with brake cleaner. I would not reuse piston rings from any of the rusted bores and would only reuse the rings from unrusted bores if they were $$$$$$ and I was building a "good used" engine rather than a full on rebuild.

You can unbolt the bell housing from the engine and pull the trans off the engine then access TC bolts from there. Just drain the TC or be ready for some fluid loss. Given the engine was sitting for an extended period of time the TC may have drained out.

Another path of attack is to remove the oil pan and pull pistons from the top that you can access with the crank in it's original position then rotate to where pistons in rusted bores are moving downwards so you can clean the bores. This way at least you are minimizing the number of times pistons need to go up and down.
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2017, 08:59 PM
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Replace all of the pistons and rings. Better safe than sorry.
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  #24  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:30 PM
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Cost of M130 rebuild

I can tell you first hand that trying to save a M130 is basicly cost prohibitive. I wound up with a very nice 65K 1965 250S with a seized motor. I am a bit of a purist and I really wanted to "save" the original motor. I am very resourceful when finding parts but I was shocked at the prices to put the motor back into nice condition. I came up with about $4,000.00 with new pistons, rocker arms, gasket set & machine work so I gave up and put my efforts into an M110 from a 123 Chassis. Parts are considerably cheaper and plentiful. The engine puts out more HP which is a plus and there are articles on the web about Megasquirt fuel injection on this motor which I am very interested in versus carburetion.
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  #25  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:31 PM
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Hi all, thanks for your comments and advice. Between yesterday and today I totally stripped the engine. As someone above said, the pistons came out the top of the block, and would not be able to go out the bottom due to the crank cradle. Had to give the pistons with the rusty cylinders a little hammer handle encouragement to come out, as they were really tight in there.

It would be penny wise and pound foolish to not use new rings and bearings in the motor, if I were to rebuild it. I inspected the pistons that came out, and it would take a lot of work to get all the sludge out of the ring grooves. The pistons have 4 grooves, but rings were only in 3 of the grooves; hmmm, doesn't seem correct to me. I am I missing something there?

I couldn't get the double timing chain out though. Is there some way to get the chain sprocket out of the block? I took of the 4-bolt access cover, and the bolt that goes through the middle of the sprocket. I thought the sprocket would be able to slide for in the block, but it hasn't moved an inch. Will I need to find the chain's master link?

In terms of keeping the car original, it's too late for that as a PO changed the color from yellow to black. The engine I am working on is the M130, as I am not satisfied with the power from the M180 that's in there now. Spending $4,000 to get 150 hp is not something I want to do. I need a little more hp for that kind of cash outlay, soooo:

I am contemplating other motors too, namely:

(1) OM617 - use the existing W110 4 speed gearbox, add an intercooler, upgraded injection pump from those guys in Finland or Sweden, 3 inch exhaust. Only problem is I don't like the clatter of the diesel.

(2) M103 - six speed SLK gearbox, turbo, maybe CIS system from a Volvo turbo. Don't know if all those components will work, and I don't have the budget to make mistakes.

(3) M110 - will that CIS intake fit in a Fintail, or would a 4 barrel Holley be better?

(4) 1JZ (cost of manual gearbox is discouraging) or Lexus V8 with a Tacoma 5 speed gearbox. That V8 is ultra sweet.

Comments?
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2017, 12:11 PM
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I'll type more later.

In general, older engines had 2 sets of oil rings, nothing modern past a large diesel uses this anymore. Too many rings just adds to friction.

The M103 is a lost cause for a transplant as is CIS (used parts are old and $ at this point ) A M104 24 valve ( sameish block as the M103 ) is much better using HFM or ME injection. If using ME you will need to do some trickery to get all the signals going to the right places but it would be doable.
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2017, 07:24 AM
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OM 617 or M110 for a W110?

Hi Guys. As it turns out, I dismantled the M130 engine, and took the components to a knowledgeable machine shop. The owner said the block was no good due to rust / scoring of #6 cylinder, so I have been on the hunt for another engine. My reason for doing this is because I am looking for a little more power for my Heckflossee.

I have found 2 possible candidate cars / engine. A OM617 from a 1985 300 turbo diesel parts car (maybe $800 selling price). The car hasn't started, but the engine has turned over healthily (125 hp - might need some modification such as an upgraded IP for a little more oomph). This engine offers great reliability, but a little noisy at idle. These blocks can be resleeved, right? Once bitten, twice shy.

A 1980 280 SE with a M110, CIS. By the VIN, I think this is a euro car, with a 185 hp (yippie!!!). That should move the fintail along nicely. This is a complete car, and it starts, but the engine is rather noisy, like a diesel!!! ($1,000 selling price). Seems like a lot of upper engine / valve train noise. I don't want to buy an engine that's not a good candidate for a rebuild due to internal damage, or overly worn parts.

Is the euro M110 too long for the W110, and will the CIS intake fit? I am not against changing to a carb intake, if I can retain at least 160 hp.

Both cars have about 220K miles, and I intend to retain my Finnie's 4 speed on the floor gearbox. Which would you choose?
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
A 1980 280 SE with a M110, CIS. By the VIN, I think this is a euro car, with a 185 hp (yippie!!!). That should move the fintail along nicely. This is a complete car, and it starts, but the engine is rather noisy, like a diesel!!! ($1,000 selling price). Seems like a lot of upper engine / valve train noise. I don't want to buy an engine that's not a good candidate for a rebuild due to internal damage, or overly worn parts.

Is the euro M110 too long for the W110, and will the CIS intake fit? I am not against changing to a carb intake, if I can retain at least 160 hp.

Both cars have about 220K miles, and I intend to retain my Finnie's 4 speed on the floor gearbox. Which would you choose?
If the M110 does in fact make noise like a diesel, beware. However, if the noise is simply loose valve adjustments, not too bad.

The M110 block is the same length as the ones of the M180-M130. As to the manifold, it is, as the Brits say, a case of "suck it, and see".
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
Hi Guys. As it turns out, I dismantled the M130 engine, and took the components to a knowledgeable machine shop. The owner said the block was no good due to rust / scoring of #6 cylinder, so I have been on the hunt for another engine.

Sleeving a block is common and not very expensive.
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:03 AM
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A 1985 300 SD followed me home last night, so I am now in the hunt for a OM617 flywheel. If anyone has one for sale, please let me know.
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