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  #1  
Old 04-09-2017, 12:41 PM
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M110 or OM617 Engine Swap - W110 Fintail

Well, I think I have narrowed my engine swap options to one of these two motors in cars that are located fairly close to me in Miami. One is a 1985 300 SD (125 hp), and the other is a 1980 280SE, Euro (185 hp).

The 300SD has made it into my garage, and photos are attached. I am completely new to diesels, so am a bit hesitant to take the plunge. Anyone know which parts I should take from the 300SD to make the engine work in the Finnie?

The M110 has compression readings about 120 psi on all cylinders, but this was done on a cold engine, so may be incorrect. It also has a very noisy valve train. I am not sure if it needs valve adjustments, or some other more sinister (expensive?) fix.

I am hoping that whichever engine I go with, will bolt up to my Finnie's current 4 speed manual gearbox.

So I am in the market for flywheels for these engines. If anyone has one for sale, please let me know.
Attached Thumbnails
M110 or OM617 Engine Swap - W110 Fintail-20170405_210507_resized.jpg   M110 or OM617 Engine Swap - W110 Fintail-20170405_210002_resized.jpg   M110 or OM617 Engine Swap - W110 Fintail-20170406_191521_resized.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
Well, I think I have narrowed my engine swap options to one of these two motors in cars that are located fairly close to me in Miami. One is a 1985 300 SD (125 hp), and the other is a 1980 280SE, Euro (185 hp).

The 300SD has made it into my garage, and photos are attached. I am completely new to diesels, so am a bit hesitant to take the plunge. Anyone know which parts I should take from the 300SD to make the engine work in the Finnie?

The M110 has compression readings about 120 psi on all cylinders, but this was done on a cold engine, so may be incorrect. It also has a very noisy valve train. I am not sure if it needs valve adjustments, or some other more sinister (expensive?) fix.

I am hoping that whichever engine I go with, will bolt up to my Finnie's current 4 speed manual gearbox.

So I am in the market for flywheels for these engines. If anyone has one for sale, please let me know.
1) Since you have the 617 in hand, measure carefully for clearances around exhaust components, and the turbo in particular, in the W110 chassis. Also measure for upper oil pan clearance.

2) Although the M110 exhaust will not present a problem, consider what will be involved with a left side intake and plenum clearance. If the injection system plenum interferes with the chassis, the engine can be switched to carbureted, which will also simplify the fuel system.

3) Although both engines will bolt to the original transmission, the 617 will require a reworked pilot bearing.
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2017, 10:25 PM
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Is there any engine in your 110? Did originally have a four or the six?
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  #4  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:08 AM
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Thanks for your comments guys.

The car originally came with the M180 engine, a straight six 2.3L, which I still have, twin Weber downdraught carbs.

I agree; I don't think the M110 CIS manifold would fit in the W110 chassis, plus all the complexities of the system and inaccessible / expensive replacement parts. I was thinking of going to carburetor: either an OEM 4 barrel manifold, or in my wild dreams, using the 2 weber carbs from the M130. I know no manifold exists for this, but it sure would look great with the twin cam valve covers and those 2 shiny rectangular weber air cleaners.

I didn't know there would be pilot bearing issues with the OM617. Can you elaborate?

Could I rebore the holes in the M180 flywheel to make it bolt to the M110 crank? I would get it balanced for the M110 at the same time.
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  #5  
Old 04-13-2017, 07:33 PM
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I tried a 1978 240 in a 110 the oil filter would not fit and motor mounts were an issue. I ended up putting a 220d in but had to do major mods to RH side for motor mounts and make clearance for oil filter. I had to cut part of a 115 sub for the mount to work. I don't think either motor will fit without major head aches. But good luck and post progress.
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2017, 10:43 PM
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Well progress has been kind of slow; limited to a few hours on weekends and evenings. Over the weekend I was able to remove all the gearbox to engine bolts. Luckily the car will be junked, so I was able to beat back the engine firewall to access the upper bolts. If the car wasn't to be scrapped, I don't know how a mechanic could possibly reach those bolts.

Mercedes has a reputation of being a well engineered car, but do Mercedes engineers actually work on these cars? I don't think so. First, the Allen key bolts that can be accessed only through a small tunnel in the engine cross member is utterly ridiculous. Is that the best idea they could come up with? Needless to say, the one on the driver's side of my 300SD is stripped, and cannot be removed. Arrrgh.

No problem, I will just remove the mount from the engine. Two bolts are easily accessible, but the lower rear one is from hell. A one inch deep socket can easily fit on the nut, but the engine vibration damper mount prevents a rachet from going on the socket. This design is totally unnecessary and asinine. Similarly, the metal lines from the oil filter to the oil cooler prevents a wrench from going on the bolt.

Infuriating trying to take this engine out so far. What other engineering surprises awaits?
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:03 PM
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Well progress has been kind of slow; limited to a few hours on weekends and evenings. Over the weekend I was able to remove all the gearbox to engine bolts. Luckily the car will be junked, so I was able to beat back the engine firewall to access the upper bolts. If the car wasn't to be scrapped, I don't know how a mechanic could possibly reach those bolts.

Mercedes has a reputation of being a well engineered car, but do Mercedes engineers actually work on these cars? I don't think so. First, the Allen key bolts that can be accessed only through a small tunnel in the engine cross member is utterly ridiculous. Is that the best idea they could come up with? Needless to say, the one on the driver's side of my 300SD is stripped, and cannot be removed. Arrrgh.

No problem, I will just remove the mount from the engine. Two bolts are easily accessible, but the lower rear one is from hell. A one inch deep socket can easily fit on the nut, but the engine vibration damper mount prevents a rachet from going on the socket. This design is totally unnecessary and asinine. Similarly, the metal lines from the oil filter to the oil cooler prevents a wrench from going on the bolt.

Infuriating trying to take this engine out so far. What other engineering surprises awaits?
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:25 PM
GemstoneGlass
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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for the m110 take the engine and transmission out in one piece. It is easier that way.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:56 PM
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Pull the valve cover on the dual cam engine and take a look at the cams. If these did not receive the regular adjustment they require they will dig into the valve followers and nothing short of a cam replacement will cure the noise.

The problem with these cams is that the original owners would take care of them. Then the next owners would let a little service work slip. By the time the rattling noise starts they have reached the point of needing replacement and not a lot of casual Mercedes owners want to invest the time and money.

Like all Mercedes engine parts these cams are expensive new. But they show up on Ebay at a reasonable cost and they are not hard to replace. It takes a lot of time, but there are easy to get to.

Making sure they are timed correctly is the hardest part.
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:06 AM
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Just to update you guys on what I found between fitting a OM617 to a W110, and measuring a M110:

The OM617 engine does bolt up to the 4 speed manual gearbox from my 1967 Finnie, however the engine mount arms from the M180 would not bolt on to the OM617 engine. The bolt hole (actually studs) spacing was different; on the M180, the top studs are about 90mm apart. I didn't measure the OM617's, but I think they were closer together (from memory).

The OM617 with accessories was too long to fit properly; in particular the power steering pump and the pipe from the water pump for the lower radiator hose protruded to far forward. Those two items stuck out too far forward. Everything else fit perfectly, including the exhaust manifold with turbo, the oil filter and oil pan, and the "pancake" R4 A/C compressor. The A/C compressor and P/S pump, although bolted to the side of the engine, were in front of the engine, so they added to the length.

The other engine I was considering was the M110, and I found a running 280SE close by my house. However, the measurements indicate that this would be too long (a DOHC 6 cylinder longer than a SOHC 5 cylinder, who would imagine that, lol). The firewall to the front of the A/C pulley is 31", and this happens to be the shortest part of my engine compartment. The fan adds 2 1/2" more, for a total of 33 1/2". The W110 is 31" from firewall to radiator, at the deepest point. From above, the firewall is crescent shaped, being deeper in the middle, from where I took the measurements.

The distance from the middle of the M110 engine to the outer side of the P/S pump is 14", so I am not sure if this would clear the Finnie's horn (which can be moved) and handbrake mechanism. Ironically, this is the same area the A/C compressor on the OM617 occupied, and fit. Hmmm.

Is there any way to move the alternator to the top, and the A/C compressor to the bottom on a M110? Maybe that would be more space efficient. Based on these measuremens, the OM617 and the M110 should fit easily in a W111 or W108, which have longer engine compartments than the W110.
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  #11  
Old 09-26-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
Just to update you guys on what I found measuring a M110:

The other engine I was considering was the M110, and I found a running 280SE close by my house. However, the measurements indicate that this would be too long (a DOHC 6 cylinder longer than a SOHC 5 cylinder, who would imagine that, lol). The firewall to the front of the A/C pulley is 31", and this happens to be the shortest part of my engine compartment. The fan adds 2 1/2" more, for a total of 33 1/2". The W110 is 31" from firewall to radiator, at the deepest point. From above, the firewall is crescent shaped, being deeper in the middle, from where I took the measurements.

The distance from the middle of the M110 engine to the outer side of the P/S pump is 14", so I am not sure if this would clear the Finnie's horn (which can be moved) and handbrake mechanism. Ironically, this is the same area the A/C compressor on the OM617 occupied, and fit. Hmmm.

Is there any way to move the alternator to the top, and the A/C compressor to the bottom on a M110? Maybe that would be more space efficient. Based on these measuremens, the OM617 and the M110 should fit easily in a W111 or W108, which have longer engine compartments than the W110.
Re: M110 dimensions

The M110 block external dimensions are the same as the M180. The M110 is the last version of a series of engines that began with the M180.

All the accessories (steering pump, generator/alternator, and water pump) that are on the M180 can be transferred directly to the M110.
Because the M110 cylinder head is wider, the A/C compressor will be positioned farther outboard; a Sanden, or similar compressor that is compact may help in this area if there is interference.
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  #12  
Old 09-26-2017, 04:50 PM
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You can always make up new brackets for the accessories.

NAPA can help to make custom AC hoses.
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  #13  
Old 09-26-2017, 05:13 PM
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The M110 does have a noisy valve/cam arrangement, but too much noise could be trouble. Adjust the valves and check the noise again.
Also, if you go with the M110 it would be wise to check and change all the vacuum/air lines before you put the engine in the car. Doing this once the engine is installed is a pain, and the M110 is very sensible to vacuum issues.

As for the intake manifold: the original carb for this engine is enormous. I'm not sure you would get much extra space by eliminating the CIS. I'd measure them both carefully.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:40 PM
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Just for size reference here is a comparison between the carbed and injected versions (from the m110 manual).
Attached Thumbnails
M110 or OM617 Engine Swap - W110 Fintail-m110.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2017, 09:05 AM
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For the Fintail - the W110 230s had a lower-profile water pump than the four cylinder cars did. You may be able to swap the water pump and ditch the power steering to make some room.
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