Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Vintage Mercedes Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-09-2002, 02:05 PM
gmask's Avatar
Man of many masks
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 777
Cool Which SL is better to have?

W113.042 M127.981 I6-sohc 230SL 1963-66 171hp 2849lbs
W113.043 M129.982 I6-sohc 250SL 1966-68 183hp 2992lbs
W113.044 M130.983 I6-sohc 280SL 1968-71 195hp 2992lbs

As far as styling I'd love any one of these cars but are there any reasons to seek one of these models over the others? Is one more collectable .. mechanically more sound?

The 280's have more horsepower I guess is one reason to go with them.. is it because the engine is larger?

__________________
MB 72 250 M130.923 114.011 170k The Beauty
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-09-2002, 04:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 164
As with most Mercedes of that era changes were made throughout the life of the model and not limited to model years. Therefore many of the traits found on a newer model very possibly appeared on the previous model. The engine sizes and horsepower outputs were truly distinct on the 230, 250 and 280-SLs. The 280 had the highest out put but also had the most weight and more smog/detox equipment than the others.

The 280's are bringing the highest dollars on the market today but that does not necessarily make them the most collectible. With as many of these 113's made I doubt that they will ever be truly collectible, especially when you consider that these were the first SL's to move away from a true light sport and more to a tourer.

Having restored a few of these to 100 point status one thing that you should keep in mind; they are extremely expensive to restore and you will be hard pressed to get your investment back. Those that will bring the highest in the market place are the ones with the rare options such as a sunroof on the hardtop, 5 speed gear box, factory Nardi wheel, factory alloy wheels, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-09-2002, 07:21 PM
gmask's Avatar
Man of many masks
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 777
Well I guess I'm looking to find one of these that I can drive.. I'm not so interested in funding a complete restoration as there are plenty of them out there that are nice if I want to just buy a restored car.

On the low end under $7K I have seen some driveable SL's that had higher mileage and either need some body work, paint and or interior. I guess they were 230's...
__________________
MB 72 250 M130.923 114.011 170k The Beauty
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-09-2002, 08:31 PM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
Are the 450SLs (from the mid 70s I think?) good cars worthy of consideration?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-09-2002, 08:44 PM
gmask's Avatar
Man of many masks
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 777
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken300D
Are the 450SLs (from the mid 70s I think?) good cars worthy of consideration?
Personally I don't like any of the SL's made after 1971 .. bu that's just me.
__________________
MB 72 250 M130.923 114.011 170k The Beauty
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-09-2002, 09:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northern Calif. (Fairfield Area)
Posts: 2,225
Gmask,

My oldest daughter lives in LA and when I asked her why she doesn't move back to the Bay Area, her response was that she didn't trust air she couldn't see. I'm assuming that is how you picked your moniker. At any rate I'm very familiar with the 113 series, and I share the same feelings about the 107 series. I have a 67 230SL that I wouldn't part with. I rigged it like the Corvette on Route 66, and Christine and I have driven the coast highway,taken it through mountain passes at 10,000 feet,and been down into areas where towns have generators and no phones or TV. Forget all the horsepower crap;the 230SL can do it. I don't like the early 230SLs because of the ugly hump in the back to accomodate the vertically stored spare. The 67 gives up trunk space to the spare, but to me it's worth the sacrifice. All of the 250SLs are very good, but try to find one. I do have a 71 280SL because it is the last year, but my recommendation to a nonmechanic would be a 68 or 69. I prefer the 69 because of the headrests. I would not advise a 70 or 71 because of the casting problem MB had with the heads. One minute you're cruising down the road all fat dumb and happy; the next minute your temp gauge is pegged and you look like Freddy Flame Out with billowing white smoke out the exhaust. I would also stay with an export version, and stay away from the European rust buckets regardless of how they look freshly painted. I don't believe there is any value difference between stick and auto. I prefer auto,because I'm a lazy bastard. The auto trans is the same K4A-025 for all years. MB came out with a K4C-025 in 69 with a control pressure rod, but the trans was too wide to fit into the SL. They just ran out the series with the K4A which is a bullet proof trans. You are right. There are plenty of good old runners out there at $10,000 to $18,000, and all you have to do is pick the right one. I suggest having any prospects checked out by someone who knows these animals. Spend the money on a real professional and save youself a lot of grief and possibly a lot of money. Hope my info helps.

Good luck,
Peter
__________________
Auto Zentral Ltd.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-09-2002, 10:16 PM
gmask's Avatar
Man of many masks
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 777
Thanks peter! That's all good info. I'm especially thankful for the tip to avoid 70's & 71's .. I've allready ahd to deal with this on my first MB at 72 250 and I don't ever want that again.

I consider myself to have some potential for being more mechanically inclined than not. I'm trying to do most of the mechanical work getting my 250 up and running good again. I do like automatic but I think I would prefer stick in the SL since it's sportier but I'd probably burn the clutch out super fast. From what I understand it is possible to DIY manual trans and clutch whereas DIY auto is mind boggling. If I manage to do the rest of the stuff I have planned for my 250 sedan then I think I can handle the SL.. fingers crossed ;-)

Anyway I'm just plannin gnow.. I can see what I'm up against.. it's a longer term goal to capture one of these cars. LOL!

BTW the air is pretty bad here.. really much worse than San Francisco but that's not why I call myself gMask. check out my website www.gmask.com
__________________
MB 72 250 M130.923 114.011 170k The Beauty
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-10-2002, 09:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 118
Peter,

Can you add some color on the head problem on the 70-71 w113? I have a 71 and no problems yet-but wondering what I have to look forward to.

Thanks
__________________
Regards,

Tom S.
1971 280SL Tunis Beige Metallic
1971 280SL Tobacco Brown (13K miles)
1970 280SL Deep Red
1994 E320 Cabriolet
1999 E320 Wagon 4Matic
2002 LX 470
1992 Land Cruiser
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-10-2002, 11:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northern Calif. (Fairfield Area)
Posts: 2,225
Tom,
There was some chronic casting problem in the head where pin holes would develop in cyls #4 and #5 as I recall. Cooling water would then pee into the combustion chamber causing white smoke. Some times the hole would be so small the only symptom would be constant need to add water. When the problem became apparent,and the head was pulled,it would be all eaten out due to cavitation. We tried welding and remachining the heads only to have them develop a hole in a different location. Those late M130 engines also had heating problems to the point where the factory fabricated an elaborite water bypass pipe that went around back of the engine. If you ever see a car with one of these mods,it is strange looking. Maybe you won't have a problem,because I think the replacement head was modified. I'm not sure;maybe someone else can chime in here.

Peter
__________________
Auto Zentral Ltd.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-11-2002, 05:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 28
Any of the 113 cars are a good choice...the 230 is the purist original design but it has the smallest engine and lacks the over 500 running changes made while these cars were produced (but that's not reason enough to pass up a nice 230)...over 20,000 230's were made so they are available...a 230 is less likely to have auto tranny or AC, not as many have power steering, they have two drum and two disk brakes...these are not negatives, just a few items you might want to know about...as the emissions stuff got hung on the cars, hp was reduced so the 250 came along for only one year (about 5,000 cars)...250's have all disk brakes and a few more hp to overcome the added weight (230 about 2700 lbs, 250/280 about 3,000 pounds)...250's are rarer because fewer were made...the 280 (I own one) has the advantage of all the running changes, more have auto trannys, AC and power steering (they made about 23,000 280's), they have 4 wheel disk brakes...a little more torque and hp but performance of all three cars is about the same...I have not heard of the problem with the head on the 70's and 71's...I read all the books, am in all the chat groups, meet a lot of 280SL owners , no one seems to have encountered the problem mentioned above...in fact the buying guide advice and the general comment I hear is that if you are going to get a 113, get the last one (280SL), they finally got it right...if you keep looking, with a bit of luck you will find the right car for you no matter what model it is...my car came with a Nardi wheel, manual tranny, optional kiddie seat, etc and I love it all...
Richard M
__________________
1971 280SL Tobacco Brown; 4 speed manual; Cognac interior; Jump Seat; 75,000 miles. Can be seen at www.panix.com/~rmadison/mercedes.shtml
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-11-2002, 12:07 PM
cth350's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,352
To summarize, each car has its merits. The 230SL is the car to get if you really want an old fashioned sports car that hasn't had all the fun civilized out of it. The 280SL is the car to have if you want all the bells and whistles. The mystique around the 280SL is based on being the last and being the biggest. Neither are great qualifications. (But better brakes and other safety mods are).

The 250SL is just a rare bird and falls between the two. Some guys love it, others don't care.

Just fine one, buy it and drive it. But don't fall in love with it until you're sure that it will be an affordable survivor.

-CTH
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-11-2002, 06:40 PM
gmask's Avatar
Man of many masks
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 777
I found a realy good link on evaluating 230/250/280 SL's and other similiar cars

http://oursl.com/sys-tmpl/evaluatingansl/
__________________
MB 72 250 M130.923 114.011 170k The Beauty
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-11-2002, 08:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northern Calif. (Fairfield Area)
Posts: 2,225
Gmask,
That's a pretty informative web site. Some good info. I even learned something I didn't know abot the series. I wasn't aware of the # stamped on the hood an hardtop. Now I have to check my SLs. I know one of my 280s has a different hood and hardtop. I've read a # of replies to this thread commenting on all the added features the 280SL has over the rest. I don't know what those are, because it is the same car with minor changes. Disc brakes started with the 66 250SL. Some 280Sls came with A/C, but who wants it? That A/C mounting bracket wraps around the entire engine. Stand by for extra labor hours for many of the engine repairs. The door pockets were flattened in later years, and head rests were introduced on the 69 280SL. Also the 68 250SL was the first year with the new safety style steering wheel that folds on impact. As the web site pointed out, if you don't want to spend the megabucks to build an engine, any 250SE or 280SE sedan engine will fit right in. That is not so with the 230SL; there is no replacement. The one weak point on the 230SL is the all aluminum fluid coupling on the auto trans. They can split in half and leave you with no trans. I put a later year crankshaft in mine and installed the all steel coupling. Any way it sounds like your getting alot of info.

Peter

__________________
Auto Zentral Ltd.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page