I don't know why I don't know this, I just assumed a 115 was the bigger one ie:74-76 240D-300D and 280. And the 114 was the 250, 220D and 250C variety.
So, I know thats wrong. What is the general rule?
Thanks

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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

My understanding is that the 115 was a reinforced version of the 114 4-doors used mainly for taxis and other heavy use vehicles.

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Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe

Typically, the W114/W115 refers to the smaller 'New Generation' coupes and sedans introduced in the late '60s and built through the mid '70s. They were the first postwar Mercedes to depart from the kingpins and swing-axle and use a 'modern' ball-joint front suspension and semi-trailing independant rear axle.
The W114 versions have 6 cylinder gas engines.
The W115 versions are the 4 cylinder gas and 4/5 cylinder diesel sedans.
As the diesels were popular as taxis, the W115 body seams have more 'welds per inch' (According to Frank Barret's latest Mercedes book.)

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Interesting,
So, the 280 would be a 114 but also a 250 with the smaller body would be one as well.
But then, conversely a 220D and 4 cyl gas with the same body as a 250 would be a 115.

Was there ever a 4 cylinder gas engine in the larger bodied W115/114?
Would that be the 230 or is that a I-six as well?
Thanks for the reply!

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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

The W114 280 has the same body as the W114 250, only with the big, ugly 5 mph bumpers after '73. The W108 and W116 'S class' 280S and 280SE were the large body 280 series cars in the late '60s and '70s.
Incidentally, my '60 220S is bigger than my '72 250 but it weighs about 300 lbs less!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

They made a variety of 115 gas cars: 200, 220, 230/4. I believe all of these had the M115 gas 4 cyl engine in them. They also made the 230/6 which would have been a 114.

When the mid range cars were the W110/W111 (fintails), they made both 4 and 6 cylinder 110's. All the 110's had shorter noses and single round headlights. I find these more attractive than the stacked 111 fintails. I don't think there were any major cosmetic differences (except interior appointments) between the 114 and 115 bodied cars of the same year, but I might be wrong.

With the pre-74 114/115 cars, in addition to prettier bumpers, you also got wing vents and those old fashion chrome side mirrors--and these are WORTH IT.

In '73 you got the newer steering wheel that is like the one in the W123. Pre '73 you get the big 'ol 108 style steering wheel--and its WORTH IT.

I don't own a 115 car, but may have to break down and get a dirt simple 220D--easy to work on, nothing to break.

Sholin

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What else, '73 MB 280 SEL (Lt Blue)
Daily driver: '84 190D 2.2 5 spd.

Watch it now! My 300D has those bumpers:p
However, I've never seen the smaller bodied 250 style car with the big bumpers.
I thought the 280 was only in the bigger body style with the twin cam 6.
BTW I think the bigger bodied car looks FAR better with the bigger bumpers than the Euro versions.

I was wondering about this!! My 280SEL has the newer style steering wheel like my 300D. It was built 9/72. I thought that it had been exchanged at some point.

Ditto, that would be my next choice. There was one in town this guy was giving to a wrecking yard that had plenty of soul left in it. Instead of trying to sell it he just relegated it to the crusher.
Had I 500 bucks laying around I would have spared its life.

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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

The W114 250 was replaced in the US by the twin-cam W114 280 in 1973 - 1 year before the battering-ram bumpers were required. The same twin-cam engine in the bigger, heavier W116 280S made for a slower car. I recently test drove a '75 W114 280 and it felt quite peppy from a start, compared to my '72 250. I think the '75 automatic used a torque converter instead of a fluid coupling. I'd take any 250 or 280 model with a stickshift, regardless of bumper size.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Cars with battering ram bumpers also came with larger grill, noticably much wider than the pre-73 models, sort of anticipating the broad 116 grill..... and driving lights were an available option.

Can vouche for the 280 twin-cam 6 as being truly superb, adding immense performance over the single cam 6.... with an entirely different engine sound under the hood with alot more "tap-tap-tapping" of valves and "whirring" of timing chain across twin cam sprockets under the hood.

Unfortunately camshaft lobes on the t/c tended to wear down at approx. 125k miles - requiring replacement of camshafts and cam carrier..... actually an easy DIY job if good used parts can be found.

Does anybody know which models came with standard shift in the USA aside from the diesels..... like maybe the 230 4-cyl?

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'80 300SD/ w116
'79 240D 4-spd
'71 750cc Guzzi

previously owned:

'83 240D 4-spd
'77 280SEL 4-spd
'74 280/8
'72 250/8
'65 220Sb 4-spd
'63 220Sb 4-spd
'63 190c 4-spd
'61 220Sb 4-spd
'60 190b 4-spd

Up to 1970, the 4 speed manual was an option for most 4 and 6 cylinder Mercedes. After 1970, a change in transmission design, stricter EPA certification reqirements, and Mercedes marketing decisions limited availibilty of the manual shift option, in the US to the 220D/240D. Around 1970, Mercedes replaced the hard to get ZF 5 speed with their own 5 speed and that option, as well as the 4 speed manual was availible on most 4 and 6 cyl cars, outside the US, especially after the 1973 oil crunch. Where I used to work i the mid '80s I saw one W123 230, in Avocado Green, with a stick-shift and the big USA bumpers. I also remember seeing a mid '70s, grey market, stick-shift W116 280S, in a most hideous orange color. I think the color was called 'Salmon' I Wish I could find a nice stick-shift one like that now, even in Salmon!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Hello,
W114: All 6 cylinder 2.3, 2.5 and 2.8 4 door saloons and
2.5,2.8 2 door coupe

w115: All 4 cylinder 2.0,2.2,2.3 gasoline AND 2.0,2.2,2.4,3.0
diesels

I do not have Frank Barett's book, so I cannot comment on what is meant by *more welds per inch* but I can tell you guys that the W114/115 are TOUGH as old boots and the front and rear suspension was in use until 1989 in the R107 SLs. I currently own a daily driver 1976 115.015 (200 gasoline) rhd saloon.
Have a good week.

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Nachi11744

Now I see why I was confused.
Mercedes got mixed up on these models. In the previous years, the higher the number Wxxx meant the next line up in the series.
For ex: W110 short body fintails, W111 6-cyl sedans and W112- top of the line sedans and coupes and converts, right.?
Then the 108 versus the 109.

They should have made the small bodied cars the 114's and 115 bigger bodied ones.
Whatever, they're still great.
The underrated bunch of the Mercedes family.

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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

josh,

The 114/115 series of cars are absolutely underrated. Mercedes in the 60's and 70's would ironically put their most advanced suspensions on the lower end cars. The upper end cars (S class) would soldier on way past the lower end cars with the lesser suspension--such as the old 108 series low pivot swing axle.

Problem is, they are viewed as "pedestrian" relative to the same vintage S class cars, so a '72 S class is more valuable than a '72 114/115.

The "real" Mercedes enthusiast knows that the 114/115 cars are valuable in their own way, not just as a three pointed star status symbol.

Sholin

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What else, '73 MB 280 SEL (Lt Blue)
Daily driver: '84 190D 2.2 5 spd.

I believe the W114 is the coupe, the W115 is the 4-door sedan, otherwise identical. Probably a wheelbase difference, too, with the W114 being a few inches shorter.

The only problem with the W114/115 chassis is rust, true of all German (and Italian) steel. Leaking window gaskets kill sooo many of these very nice cars.

I guess I will have to try to get the old thing started so I can fix the rear brakes and start driving it again....

The W108 suspension dates from 1953, with zero offset steering added on in 1962 with the 113 chassis. The suspension on the W114/115 was nearly identical up front, with ball joints instead of king pins (and no grease fittings) with the rear being a diff bolted to the frame and semitrailing arms instead of a swing axle. The rear suspension stayed like that until the W201 (190 series) in 1983.

The C111 front suspenstion was used from 1972 to 1992, with the W201 chassis introducing a strut type suspension, again in 1983.

DB is a rather conservative company -- once they find something that works, they only change it when a distinct improvement is possible. After all, the only difference between a 1955 Chevy front end and a 1995 Chevy front end is the presence of ball joints a non lubricated control arm bushings -- the geometry is very very similar. Believe me, the W108 with kingpins and a swing axle rear end handles VERY nicely, thank you, for a 4000 lb car.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Hello'
Please read my previous post, the W114 is ALL six cylinder 2 and 4 door bodies, the W115 is ALL four cylinder and the sole 5 cylinder diesel (240D 3.0 or 300D in NA). ALL share the 108.3 inch wheelbase, the coupes have a lower roofline with a smaller rear screen and are pillarless (hardtops for Americans!)

There were no zero ofset front suspensions before the W116 of 1972 and W123 of 1976, all prior designs have positive offset steering geometry.

The W201, W124 and R129 and ALL models after these cars, eg W140, W210 etc. have NEGATIVE offset front steering geometry.

W108 were a restyled W111/112 (fintail) with bigger 2.5 and later 2.8, 3.0, 3.5 and finally 4.5 (USA only) engines, all the details of the running gear are similar to fintails.

W114/115 were a somewhat radical departure for DB and the basic rear suspension was used in the R107, W116, W123 and W126. AFAIK, the only interchangeble part is the suspension arm itself, and perhaps the differential assembly.

The front suspension from the W114/115 was used in the R107 only.

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Nachi11744