I'm happy with my '69 280S...well maybe not, since the fuel milage is killing me. I'd like to know what Diesel MB's are available from the 50's and 60's, since I like the body styles from the 50's &60's, and I know they get much better milage. I've seen some 190D's from the early sixties and like their bodies. How poor is the acceleration in these 190's and other 50's & 60's diesel models, is it like that of a diesel w123 or much worse.
Please provide a list of 50-60's MB diesel models, and some reviews about them, Thanks.

__________________
'77 300D 387,000 Miles . . .

'69 280S (SOLD)

'79 300CD (SOLD)

Mixed reviews.... I've been told the 180Db will have you dropping into 3rd gear at 35-40 mph on steep mountain uphill grades. With low compression older engines, say crossing Donner's Pass, you might even creep over the top at 30mph. Altitude is also a factor with the diesel engine.

Otherwise, top speed for 180Db, 190Db, 190Dc, 200D averages between 65 and 75 mph.

You will also be paddling through the gears constantly on narrow power band engine.... so forget about automatic transmission.

Fuel mileage will be double what you are getting with your 280S, yet acceleration drops drastically. Think in terms of 1/4 mile at 29 seconds from standing start, hammer down.

Many folks enjoy the primitive diesels because they make the driver work harder, taking nothing for granted...... even cold winter starts become a ritual.

More good news is these are the easiest automobiles in the world to maintain. When MB was makin diesels in the 1960's they virtually owned the international taxi cab market. Many of these cars spent their lives running 24/7 within city limits across the globe.

Off the cuff, I'd say these are extreme special interest cars that are not for everybody. They've got cult following that few can understand.

A 220D from the late sixties will be somewhat peppier, and a 300D from 75/76 (the W115, not the W123) will be even better.

Not the same styling, though.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

well, I don't mind driving a manuel, actualy I prefer it over an automatic, and I dont' mind working harder while driving. Altitude shouldn't be a problem since Los Angeles is pretty flat.

As for the w115's, w116' and other 70's cars, I prefer the styling of the 50's and 60's over them.

Can 50's -60's diesels be used for daily use no-a-days?

And please share more info/reviews on these models, and which models are available.

__________________
'77 300D 387,000 Miles . . .

'69 280S (SOLD)

'79 300CD (SOLD)

Go to http://www.mbzponton.org/ and snoop around for awhile. You'll find all you want to know about the late 50's and early 60's MB's.

Len

Mercedes Ponton Diesels of the '50s and early '60s have feeble brakes and heaters (I drove a '61 Ponton 180b from 1973 to 1990). Early Fintail 190Ds are somewhat better, have slghtly more power and finally got front disc brakes in August 1963. If you must have a '60s Diesel and want to use it as a daily driver, go for the last of the Diesel Fintails, the 1965 - 68 200D. It came standard with modern power front disc brakes and an acceptable heater, was availible with power steering and even AC but avoid the automatics. With 60 HP, 0 to 60 acceleration is about 26 seconds and top speed only around 80, but still much better than the 46 HP Ponton 180D.

If you decide a Diesel isn't your thing, a stick-shift gas 190 or 200 Fintail might be worth considering. Gas mileage would be somewhere between your 280 and a Diesel.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

I definitly like the later fintails, before finding my current '69 280S I was also look at the fintails. These also came as 220D's, or am I mistaken? All though the brakes may be an issue, the heater problem shouldn't plague me in sunny Southern California. None the less I'll start looking at both diesel and gas fintails for sale, so I could possible get a test drive. Unfortunatly,
it's harder to sell a car than to buy one. So, I guess i'll be dreaming until someone falls in love with my 280S.

You live and you learn I guess.

__________________
'77 300D 387,000 Miles . . .

'69 280S (SOLD)

'79 300CD (SOLD)

That's where Mercedes model numbers get confusing. There was a 6 cylinder gas Fintail 220/220S/220SE series from 1959 to 1965. The last Fintail diesel model was the 1965 to 1968 200D.
The 4 cylinder diesel 220D and 4 cylinder gas 220 was the square-body W115 built from 1967 into the 1970s. Also the 200/200D series carried on, from the late '60s through the '70s, in the W115 square-body.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

wouldn't maybe getting an injected 280SE help with fuel economy? I have a pet hate for carbies for there ability to devour fuel too quickly

Everything I've read or experienced about Mercedes gas models shows little or no difference in gas mileage between similar carbureted and fuel injected models. The main advantage on the SE models seems to be slighly more power with the same MPG. The biggest problem with vintage Mercedes gas mileage is lack of an overdrive gear. The '60s 6 cylinder cars were designed to get maximum performance from relatively small engines in in relatively large cars.

In Europe, those that wanted economical Mercedes, bought diesels. In the US, few people cared about gas mileage. Mercedes axle ratios, automatic transmissions and other luxury options, such as AC and power windows, were designed to help their US market cars compete better with American V8s, not to save on gas.

For years, I drove a '72 250 with a 280S engine. In my car I found, timing and carb adjustment could significantly improve gas mileage. Still, my best MPG was about 16 city and 21 highway. If I'd had a manual trans, I probably could have added a couple MPG more. Having the rare 5 speed manual would have been even better. Some have changed the rear axle ratios in their cars for better mileage and more relaxed highway cruising, at the expense of acceleration.

My stick-shift '60 Finnie 220S does manage a couple MPG better than my loaded 250.
And, although my 220S is larger than my 250, it actually weighs a couple hundred pounds less!

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

I drove a 67 200D Finny in New England for about a year and a half- if you're in LA, the cold start hassle and mediocre heat shouldn't be issues. Were it not for that, 3 out of 4 seasons the car was an absolute joy to drive. So simple, and immensely satisfying, especially rowing the 4-speed on the floor away from stoplights- just keeping up with traffic, like 10 year old Escorts and the like, was considered an achievement....

After driving that car in traffic in wintertime for more than 20 minutes, the camel coat would have to come off, as all the sawing at the wheel (non-assisted) and shifting would really get me warm....

-JAS

__________________
94 E320
71 350SL

I'd have to say the minimum you'd want is a 200D Fintail.
Anything earlier than that and your asking for trouble being in such a slow car in Los Angeles. My 76 300D has just enough power to keep me from getting into perilous situations pulling out in front of someone. It is the minimum I would consider for myself and I don't live in Los Angeles.
I think you should take that into consideration, given that you didn't seem to factor in gas mileage on your purchase of the 280S. Now you've only had it a month(?) and you want to sell it already.?! Don't make the same mistake twice and get a really slow car that you have to turn around and sell.
It would be cool to have one, but maybe not as a daily driver.
I'm sorry if I sound preachy at all. I don't mean to tell you what to do, it's none of my business. Just .0002 cents
Josh

__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

"joshhol",
You don't sound preachy, everything you said is completly true. Buying a car and than trying to sell it within a months is crazy, to me too. The main reason I bought the '69 280S was because I really like the w108 body, and I thought I could sell it for far more than what I bought it for. That was the case with my '79 300CD, I made $2,500 on the deal in a few short months. I didn't put up the for sale sign yet (on the '69 280S), but it seems like the only way to dig myself out of its gas guzzling expense.
Even if I sell the 280S in a short period of time (breaking even, or getting more than I paid for), finding a 200D will be another uphill battle.

__________________
'77 300D 387,000 Miles . . .

'69 280S (SOLD)

'79 300CD (SOLD)

SoCalBomb,
What kind of gas mileage are you actually getting? Is it running smooth? A bad plug or burned valve will kill gas mieage.
If it seems to be running OK on all 6, there are still things you could do to improve mileage and performance. Often the carbs get tweaked by well-meaning owners to try to make tha car run better. They'll often richen up the mixture screws or crank up the idle speed to compensate for a lazy choke. Many years ago I bought a used '72 4 cylinder 220 that got 12 MPG on my first trip! After leaning out the carb, highway mileage improved to about 23 MPG.
On the 280S, I'd First, check to see if the chokes are sticking. If they're OK, I'd suggest leaning out the idle mixture screws as much as possible - just short of a rough idle, lowering the idle speed as much as possible - just short of stalling in gear, then advancing the timing slightly - maybe 2 or 3 degrees - just so long as pinging doesn't become a problem.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

The car seems to be running very smooth, I'll estimate that I'm getting about 10-11mpg in mixed driving. Only when the engine is cold does it seem to be struggling a little while idling. Often if I don't apply some gas while starting the car and rev it a few times the car will shut off (morning start). But once the car is warm, it runs very smooth during idle and driving. I can't hear an pings, or knocks, it all sounds very healthy.

Because of this rough idiling around cold starts I raised the idle speed. But the poor gas milage, of around 11MPG has always been there.

I've also noticed that from time to time when I floor it, the car will excellerate as poorly as my 300CD, for the first 3 seconds, and then quickly pick up steam as usual. I don't know if this is normal.

This weekend i'll replace the plugs, since I don't know how old they are. I've already replaced the air filter, which seemed to help starting the car.
Not to mention, I just ordered a master cylinder, and a new thermostat.

yeah, she's my little "GoldDigger"

I'll be gone till Saturday, so don't think I forgot about the this thread if I don't reply till then. I'll try to check the thread before I leave tonight.

__________________
'77 300D 387,000 Miles . . .

'69 280S (SOLD)

'79 300CD (SOLD)