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  #1  
Old 01-26-2004, 08:44 AM
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Gas Octane question w/retarded timing

Friends:

(Re: 450 SEL Euro):

Temporarily, I'm running on retarded timing which I retarded due to the fact that one of my vacuum advance lines came out, and I can't get it back in.
Question: Normally, I run this car on premium (93 octane) Since timing is retarded currently, should I continue to run on premium, or switch - temporarily - to a lower octane? Any firm thoughts?

Thanks!!!!!

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  #2  
Old 01-26-2004, 11:59 AM
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You could wait until the tank is just about empty, try a couple of lower-octane gallons and see how she runs, then if you hear any pinging, fill it up with premium.
Trouble is, severe or prolonged pinging is not good for an engine and there may be some driving conditions where you may not hear it. Pinging will also increase with warmer weather, increased load, AC use, etc...

Without knowing, under all driving conditions, how much the timing is affected by that loose vacuum line, I'd be reluctant to assume that it's safe to run regular fuel. Personally, even if I can re-tune my premium-fuel cars to safely run on regular, the loss of performance and gas mileage would be unacceptable. I'd reconnect that vacuum line. If it's in a tight spot, have you tried a long needle-nose pliers or a long curved needle-nose/

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #3  
Old 01-26-2004, 12:06 PM
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Mark: thanks for the advice. I'll stick to the premium. Actually, I just wanted to make sure it was OK to do so.

As to vacuum line, I need HELP. It's the short red line that popped out from the intake area. It went into a little rubber elbow
which I then broke off due to pushing, etc.

Assuming I can get that little rubber elbow (about 1/2 inch long) replaced, where can I find a real thin 10-12 inch needle nose or curved nose plier? Tried 8" one, but couldn't use it - due to wide section of plier getting stuck in opening area. So longer one is necessary. Tried a tweezer, but it ouldn't grip tight enough.

Tried Sears, autozone, Discount/Advance, for the longer plier - no luck.

Any ideas?

thanks
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  #4  
Old 01-26-2004, 12:29 PM
dang50
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pliers

If you have a Northern Tool and Equipment where you are they have needle nose pliers that are about sixteen inches long.
Dan
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2004, 12:32 PM
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First, is there any better access to that vacuum fitting if you remove the air filter housing? Any openings at the intake manifold to access that line?
If not, you may need to try Snap-On or Mac tools for a longer pliers set.
Something I would try - Make a long-handle, fork-like tool out of heavy wire from something like a wire clothes hanger. You may have to scrounge up something heavier or stiffer than clothes hanger for it to work.
You might be able to adapt/fabricate something out of a fondue fork or barbecue tool.
Press the new rubber hose onto the end of the red vacuum line.
Make the 'fork' just wide enough to hold the red vacuum line while using it to press against the end of the rubber hose and manoeuver it into place.


Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #6  
Old 01-26-2004, 12:50 PM
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Forceps (sp) work good. You know, those long slender things doctors use to clamp artieries. I have a supply of various length ones for just these applicaitons. Plus, they have a little locking device that you can set and forget. I got them at an industrial supply house (grainger I think or McMaster-Carr) for use in soldering wires.
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  #7  
Old 01-26-2004, 01:07 PM
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If this is the line from the throttle body to (the electronic switch, then to) the distributor, your timing will be ADVANCED without it. Therefore, NO WAY should you use regular!
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  #8  
Old 01-26-2004, 02:05 PM
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Re: rubber 'elbow' fitting

Now, for some serious assistance:

Can anyone, someone, provide me for the Part number to ask for/or order that little rubber elbow fitting from throttle body to short vacuum line to distributor? It's a 45-degree 1/2 inch black rubber elbow that sits on top of throttle body, udnerneath intake by about 6 inches or so.

Hint: model is a Euro, '77 450 SEL 4.5 M117 motor. (Unless this makes no difference). I don't even know where to start on this. Can't be more than a $5 piece, but absolutely necessary.

Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 01-26-2004, 03:30 PM
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I'm not that familiar with Mercedes 4.5 V8s, so without more details, is there any way your 45 degree elbow can be replaced with a piece of rubber hose. Some auto parts stores do carry generic rubber elbows for vacuum lines.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #10  
Old 01-26-2004, 04:09 PM
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Mark:

Don't know. I would like to get the original spec part, since it seems to have a metal tubking inside. Or at least seems that way. And may fit better.

Still would like that part number.

Anyone?
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  #11  
Old 01-26-2004, 06:00 PM
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If you are reffering to the same line I'm thinking about, there probably is no part number; it's just cut vacuum hose. I picked up a 2' section for my door lock system and had some leftover and replaced the pieces on the distributor, throttle body, and the vacuum relay as well. Original spec, I can assure you, is what my car had: A 2" piece of black rubber vacuum hose. What probably happened is that the plastic hose that goes inside it broke off in it. It's VERY easy to reach on my car without tools, but I don't know if your fuel distributor would get in the way since I am not familiar with K-Jet. The 2" long piece connects the (originally clear) vacuum line going to the switch on the firewall to the throttle body. At the switch are 2 more pieces - replace those too (one from the line mentioned before going into the switch, the other is for the line going from that switch to the dizzy). Finally, replace the 2" piece at the dizzy's vac advance. No more than 1' is needed, you can easily cut it yourself with a utility knife.
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  #12  
Old 01-26-2004, 11:24 PM
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"You know, those long slender things doctors use to clamp artieries. I have a supply of various length ones for just these applicaitons. Plus, they have a little locking device that you can set and forget. I got them at an industrial supply house (grainger I think or McMaster-Carr) for use in soldering wires."

I think you mean Hemostats. I have pairs of those that curve up/down, left/right. They are real handy and you dont burn your fingertips.
:p
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2004, 06:40 PM
cincuenton
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To: Tomguy

Tomguy:

As per your earlier thread today, if I just go get a section of rubber hose for this connection to the throttle body, since I can't really measure the opening nib, what thickness do you think i'm looking at? Do you think it would be the same at both ends? If that's the case, I can just bring the short red vacuum line to the auto supply store and match it.

What spec of hose should I get?

Also:

Since the orignal short hose was built like an elbow, at a 45-degree angle, can I find one like that? Otherwise, I'm not going to have the room to bend it around-can't get my fingers in there.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2004, 06:54 PM
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I think it was 5/32 but am not 100% sure on that - you'll know it when you see it.
The new line is very flexible and will easily make its own "elbow" due to that fact. I don't know if your car's arrangement is the same as mine but an elbow isn't needed on mine. Remember, this MUST go to the switch first, not straight to the distributor!

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