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  #1  
Old 02-20-2004, 12:45 AM
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More 'jewels' for 'Miss Daisy'

Well I became temporarily insane tonight and bought some more goodies for my '60 Fintail 220S. A pair of Euro headlights, off Ebay for just under $200, including shipping and insurance. Didn't seem too outrageous, considering other sets have previously been marketed at well over $200, plus overseas shipping and/or without the chrome trims (usually being sold separately for $50 each!) Recalling a previous poster's unfortunate Euro headlamp buying experience, I guess I'll find out when mine arrive.
Wish me luck.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 02-20-2004 at 12:55 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2004, 01:35 AM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
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What are you gonna do with original pre-'63 corner light chromes and dual headlight assemblies?? Hell, if Euro lights from any year are worth $200 - then rare retro-upgrade 220Sb pods that include signals and marker lights in one unit oughta be worth alot too.... Am willing to bet the originals are among the scarcest of 220Sb items - right up there with early closing door pockets and ultra scarce chrome heater levers.
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Old 02-20-2004, 09:48 AM
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I don't think the stacked light units are THAT rare in the US. (Perhaps the corner lights with sockets are more rare) I saw some for sale at the Carlisle PA import flea market last year.
I'm going to hang on to my originals. With 'Miss Daisy', most of the changes that I've done can be put back to how they were before. Besides, if something happened to the Euros....
Maybe I'll drive mostly on the sealed beams but put the Euros on for 'show'.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Old 02-20-2004, 10:37 AM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
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Yep, its the little corner lights I'm thinkin belong on rare parts list.... Meanwhile chrome heat levers from Pontons will fit right into 220Sb slots.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2004, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark DiSilvestro
I don't think the stacked light units are THAT rare in the US. (Perhaps the corner lights with sockets are more rare) I saw some for sale at the Carlisle PA import flea market last year.
I'm going to hang on to my originals. With 'Miss Daisy', most of the changes that I've done can be put back to how they were before. Besides, if something happened to the Euros....
Maybe I'll drive mostly on the sealed beams but put the Euros on for 'show'.

Happy Motoring, Mark
I've heard that the Euros give off a lot more light, you might want to do the opposite! (At least if the stock dual-lights have good chrome still)
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2004, 03:30 PM
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yeh, but...

I am in the midst of procuring some euros for my 108. I have seen posts here which go both ways on the lighting improvement or lack thereof with the euros. Just in case the lighting is not an improvement I intend to replace my faux-fogs with Bosch or other appropriate-era driving lamps. Can't wait to undertake this transformation

Hoping I can figure out how to tap into the original light switch with its two pull-out detents and wire my drivers into that for a tidy mod.
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2004, 11:27 PM
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Well, I could brighten up my current sealed beams with halogens. I'll wait and see how well the Euros perform. If they're not great, it may be possible to fit brighter bulbs.
Since my early Fintail doesn't have the 'bullet' turn signals to get in the way, I already have a pair of vintage Bosch foglamps I can add.

Awhile back, someone posted a comparison of different headlight types and while the standard sealed beams were pretty mediocre, the halogen sealed beams actually outperformed some of the Euro-type headlights that became legal here in the mid '80s. I know the halogen sealed beams on my '84 Honda are vastly better than the flush type headlamps on a friend's '97 Chrysler minivan.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:18 AM
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Euro lights which were original equipment on a fintail

were almost certainly made to take the pre-halogen Type A (asymetrical pattern) bulbs, which have an entirely different base than H-4 bulbs. I have seen in a catalog from England once upon a time about 25 years ago, halogen bulbs with an H-4 bulb and a Type A base, made to brighten up the old style Euro lamps without replacing the whole headlight unit, and I have one here in my headlight collection (not for sale), but they certainly might be hard to get nowadays. On the other hand, if you're really good with a soldering torch, you can carefully remove the H-4 base and then carefully align and fit a type A base yourself -- I did it a few times for an old Volvo 1800S which had been fitted with the Ferrari-style Marchall lights popular in the aftermarket in the early '60s. The wattage is only slightly higher for the H-4, but the heat generated is much greater, so it may cause old style reflectors to deteriorate.
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:50 AM
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Since Euro-style headlamps are common now, I wonder if a modern 9004 type bulb could be adapted to those early headlamps?
I guess I'll find out when they arrive.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Old 02-21-2004, 05:31 PM
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Forget the 9004 bulbs!

They are the ones which make us all complain constantly about post-sealed beam USA code headlights! Look for a way to adapt to H-4 instead. In fact, now that I think of it, I have in that weird headlight collection of mine a set of Cibie Type-A using 5 3/4 round lights from a Peuteot delivered to a colleague while he was a visiting professor in France long ago and converted to sealed beams upon US entry, and the Type-A hole on those was just the perfect size (and focal length -- the most important factor) so I could crimp and epoxy in an H-4 bulb so that my son could use them for an upgrade on his old '78 BMW 320i.

Be warned, though, that reflectors and lenses designed for Type A bulbs usual have a lot less beam dispersion designed in, because the light output was so much less, and therefore you will have a lot brighter up-angle on the right (assuming that your light units come from a car with USA/German road habits rather than British), which may iritate people who get the beam in their left side mirror as you pass them, and they also spread less light way over to both sides, a factor to consider in deer country.

I also have in my light collection a sample of a unit made in Brazil which JCWhitney once marketed ("For off road only") which had basically H-4 Euro code specs, but the bulb was like an H-4 but with an entirely different sort of base, not H-4 or Type A -- I don't know if it was for some South American code or what.

Addendum: upon rechecking, I think that the base of the Brazilian bulbs is the type European lights had before the Type A was adopted in about 1956, when they still had a flat cutoff.

Last edited by Fimum Fit; 02-21-2004 at 09:01 PM.
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2004, 07:58 PM
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This morning I was in my local PepBoys autoparts store and they had some metal-base 9003 bulbs that looked like some I've seen in older Euro lights. They were availible in 'standard' or 'high power' (whatever that means) and my local import parts store sells Hella non sealed beams, labeled "for off road use only", so I may still have some bulb options.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2004, 08:50 PM
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9003 is just an H-4 with a different label.

The bureaucrats in Washington insisted on assigning it a different number so that it didn't look like they were giving in to reason or common sense when they finally began allowing it on USA market cars (with an unfortunately altered beam pattern) about a decade ago.

One good thing is that the Type A, the H-4/9003, and the traditional USA sealed beams with dual filaments (high and low beam in one reflector lens unit) all take the same connector, whereas 9004 and 9007 bulbs require a different wiring pigtail with a badly designed connector to hook up to the car's wiring. If it should happen that you need to replace some Type A bulbs before you have time to do any conversion, try motorcycle shops. Perhaps also some of our European net readers can inform us as to whether conversion kits from Type-A to H-4 might still be on the market over there.

Last edited by Fimum Fit; 02-21-2004 at 09:04 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2004, 11:40 PM
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My W111 Euro headlamps arrived today. I'm pleased to say the glass 'bubbles' survived unbroken, except for a small stone chip 'bullseye' that hasn't yet separated. One chrome trim is good and the other nearly so except for a blemish at the bottom. I guess I'm pleased enough to be willing to deal with all the other flaws.

As seen in the Ebay photos, 7" sealed beams have been 'Mickey-Moused' into the headlamp reflectors.

Rubber gaskets/seals are rotten so I'll need to make up new ones.

Seller said the wiring harnesses had been cut but the male and female harness plugs are included and intact so it will be easier for me to make up new wiring harnesses.

Original reflectors have lost some of the mirror finish but most of the silver remains so they're still useable. I'll need to recreate/fabricate bulb shields and sockets for the headlamp reflectors and spring contacts for the little parklamps mounted next to them.
An alterntive would be to modify and fit a pair of those 'off road' 7" H4 Hellas, perhaps with their glasses removed.

As advertised, the foglamp assemblies are missing. Not an issue for me as I already have a pair of vintage Bosch foglights for this car anyway. (But, if I really want them, there are compact foglamps availible that I could fit inside the headlamp units)


Well, I enjoy challenges like this that test my creativity. Many thanks to Dan. His headlight photos will be very helpfull.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 02-24-2004 at 10:23 AM.
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