I mucked up the timing on my 4.5 - trying to pin down
a missing/galloping issue under load and higher rpms.
Changed fuel filter, better, but still some there.
Suspected the timing was advanced - last setting was done by ear.

If I'm not mistaken, the balancer is rotating on the hub - oy !

the details:
New Timing Chain, Crane Ign, was running ok, last tune by ear
(could be a little advanced).

Timing light showed WAY off - as in some major mark I painted white that I knew was nowhere near TDC - but it ran ok.
Hmmm.

Went through the Crane line up -
Rotate motor to TDC, dist rotor looks one notch retarded.
So I pull it and move it fwd one notch and verify the crane is set correctly - looks fine, but crank and kaplow ! - backfire through intake - ok, that's not right.

This AM, try to reverse the error - move dizzy back on notch.
This time, it idles VERY high like its WAY advanced.
AND - the timing marks are rotating counter clockwise !

So, it appears my balancer is off and freewheeling at higher RPMS.

I suppose I could pop the pass valve cover, align the cam mark,
and approx TDC.

What's involved with a fix ?

thanks,
Joe Warner
Nashville, TN

The balancer is bolted to a hub. The crankshaft pulley bolts (6 of them) go though the balancer and tighen on the hub. There is a woodruff key on the crank holding the hub in correct position.

Either the key is broken or the 27mm hub bolt is loose.
Fix it right, you'll spend more time advancing this and retarding that......

I would feel sure that the rubber core of the harmonic balancer is rotten and thus allows the outer ring, with the marks on it, to slip around freely, regardless of whether the hub of the balancer is bolted and keyed securely to the crankshaft or not. But I'm not familiar with this model of M-B, so perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut.

Ok, the "moving" thing was probably just a different wire arcing.

I aligned everything to TDC #1
(popped off pass side valve cover and cranked until
TDC/cam marks aligned), and balancer lined up.

Good... but...

Lined everything else up, and she started fine.

BUT - here's the kicker -

It's like 30 deg off.....

I'm going back in to retrace my steps -
somethings not right here.

Joe

Are you sure that you are hooking the timing light to the right spark plug wire? It needs #1. -The farthest forward cylinder.
Does your timing light have the dial advancement?
Some of these type that are not well made have caused problems for other people.
Try another timing light, if you are attaching to #1.

BTW the rubber can allow the outer ring of the balancer to "walk" around the rubber, throwing the marks helter-skelter.

Is the mark erratic like the timing chain is stretched? I have seen the chain jump a tooth, then someone moved the distributor to "compensate" for the out of time cam.

A/C Idler Pulley -

When I reinstalled the A/C compressor (and idler pulley),
I got something wrong -

The back of the idler pulley was rubbing against the balancer !
Apparently it rubbed bad enough to move the rubber balancer on the hub (ouch !).

Guess I need a new balancer or crank hub.
Can I replace just the balancer ?

Turns out the crank woodruff key was sheared.

I'm in the process of R&Ring the front timing cover.
Any hints on how to get that thing off ?

Joe,

Got your email about the C,Z tools. We can work something out. Do you need help with the front cover? I have an M117 factory shop manual that I can reference if you need.

Josh

__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

Yes, Yes, and Yes!
Timing Cover first -

Heads are on, all bolts loosened/removed,
including Oil Pump.

Cover is 3/4" off block at top, maybe 3/8" at bottom.
Got there by gradually prying off slowly and gently.
Appears to be "stuck" on one/more of the sleeves to left of crank hole.

Thinking of using a three prong puller and pull on the inside of
the crank seal, but worried about damage.

Also, what does manual show for crank gear pulling ?
I'll need to remove that guy to get the damaged woodruff key out.

Have fax at work if you think that might help.

thx in advance,
joe

So it sounds like you have all the accessories off of the front of the engine, with the timing housing cover loosened and partially removed. Do you have the bolts of the cylinder head loosened?


Here is the excerpt from the manual about pulling the hub, vibration damper and pulley:

"The crankshaft gear and hub are located on front crankshaft journal, aligned by key. This assembly is pressed against crankshaft by the screw and the four disc springs. Vibration damper and the pulley are screwed to hub in a given position, since one of the six tapped holes is located off center.

1. Remove radiator, fan and V-belt.
2.Lock crankshaft with detent against rotation. (shows picture of flywheel with special tool 116 589 01 40 00 detent.

3. Unscrew crankshaft bolt.

4. Mark crankshaft and hub in relation to each other with a chisel so that the groove of the hub will be in alignment with Woodruff key during assembly.

5. Pull off manually vibration damper together with pulley and hub. If necessary knock from crankshaft by means of a plastic hammer.

__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

My bad. You need crankshaft sprocket removal instructions. That's the piece with the Woodruff key correct?

1. Remove oil pump.

2. Remove timing house cover.

3. Mark crankshaft sprocket together with timing chain.

4. Mark right hand camshaft sprocket together with timing chain and remove.

5. Remove chain tensioner.

6. Loosen lefthand (lower) slide rail.

7. Pull off crankshaft sprocket manually or with two arm puller.

Installation

8. Transfer marking from old to new crankshaft sprocket.

9. Slip crankshaft sprocket on crankshaft.

10. Place timing chain on crankshaft sprocket in such a manner that the markings are in alignment.

11. Proceed vice versa.

__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

Extra tips for removing timing cover from the manual.

1-7. Remove accessories.
8. Remove pulley together with vibration damper and hub.
9. Remove oil damper with holder.
Do not unscrew closing plugs of oil damper.
On engines with oil suction, remove oil dip stick guide tube.

10. Remove coolant pump with housing.
11. Remove oil pump. Loosen oil pan upper half on two piece oil pan on crankcase, that is, loosen screws for approx. 3-4 turns.

12. Unscrew cylinder head bolts.
13. Disconnect TDC transmitter and pull out.
14. Unscrew all screws for timing housing cover.
15. Push out radial sealing ring for crankshaft.
16. Remove timing housing cover while disconnecting oil pump chain on crankshaft sprocket.

Do not damage cylinder head gasket.
Renew damaged cylinder head gaskets.

__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6