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  #16  
Old 01-12-2005, 07:46 PM
zbenz's Avatar
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Go with 4

I have 4 Dunlop winter sport m3 on each mercedes and would never drive in the winter again without them. With them the car is like a tank plowed through 8 inches of fresh snow the other morning with half inch of ice under. I even drove on wet ice a couple weeks ago nothing is better than common sense but snow tires do help. As far as the dunlops go I have done plenty of highway driving and had no stability issues.

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  #17  
Old 01-12-2005, 07:48 PM
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I would vote for 2 studded-or 4 studless-I had a set of studs on the front of a Civic once and they are not good for steering(sliding on turns)-some of the studless winter tires are almost as good without the noise(my wife's Vibe has 4 Semperit winter tires on steel rims-it would be useless in snow without them.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:23 PM
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I run 4 michelin artic alpens on my 83sd, same on my wife's volvo 740 TI and 4 bridgestone blizzaks on my daughters 760 TI volvo, new driver!!!!! Every one always gets home, so far steve 83sd
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I would vote for 2 studded-or 4 studless-I had a set of studs on the front of a Civic once and they are not good for steering(sliding on turns)-some of the studless winter tires are almost as good without the noise(my wife's Vibe has 4 Semperit winter tires on steel rims-it would be useless in snow without them.
Studs on fron wheel drive not so good......they go on back or all four.....never front alone.

Studs excell on ice..........NOTHING beats them there except chains.
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:33 PM
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We had a skating rink this morning, and if it wasn't for 4 studded snows, I'd never have made it in. For slick conditions nothing beats studs. The front is most important for steering and stopping, always put your best traction there.
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  #21  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old300D
We had a skating rink this morning, and if it wasn't for 4 studded snows, I'd never have made it in. For slick conditions nothing beats studs. The front is most important for steering and stopping, always put your best traction there.
Like I said all 4 or only the rears.....put them on only the fronts and you are going to have a seriously tailhappy car that try to spin out on slick roads everytime you try to stop.
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:36 PM
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I'm pondering the same question. I have 4 decent M+S tires on all of my cars and if I have a problem in the snow it's always the rear slipping upon acceleration from a stop or going uphill. I haven't had any problem with steering or stopping so I was thinking to just get 2 snow tires for the rear. But it seems like everybody here believes 4 snow tires are a lot better. Hmm...
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  #23  
Old 01-12-2005, 08:44 PM
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I put two snows on my 91 BMW last winter. Its REALLY light and manual trans, and was bad in the snow. It was really transformed in the snow with only two tires.

My thinking is if its bad weather, I need to go really slow anyway, even if I have snows. So yes, front end control IS important, but IMO slow driving is the only safe driving when it is really bad out.

That said, since Ive replaced my 83 with a new saab 9-3, I got 4 snows on it for this year.

JMH
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2005, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict
I'm pondering the same question. I have 4 decent M+S tires on all of my cars and if I have a problem in the snow it's always the rear slipping upon acceleration from a stop or going uphill. I haven't had any problem with steering or stopping so I was thinking to just get 2 snow tires for the rear. But it seems like everybody here believes 4 snow tires are a lot better. Hmm...
4 M+S tires is fine, that's what I have. 2 Studded snows in rear IMHO is best for a RWD MB. By snows, I do not mean regular, all season or M+S tires. I mean tires with a very open and agressive tread. The tread comes to a squared off point and the space between adjacent projections is easily wide enough to bury your thumb into. Less than 50% of the pattern against the road will be rubber with a true "snow" tire. This is very different than a M+S or allseason tire which may have 80% or more of the pattern be rubber. It's this significant difference in the pattern which allows a snow to penetrate deeper by pushing the snow into the large open spaces between the treads. You do not want this type of tire in the front, but it will provide much more traction in the rear, and studs will provide even more, especially on ice. No tire provides traction in the front of a RWD car because the car is driven from the rear wheels. RWD=Rear Wheel Drive.
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2005, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Burton
No tire provides traction in the front of a RWD car because the car is driven from the rear wheels. RWD=Rear Wheel Drive.
If I may respectfully disagree. Traction means more than just the rear wheels driving the car, Duh. Any tire provides "traction" just by being in contact with the ground. With up to 80% of stopping forces are on the front wheels and a major portion of stability in cornering attributed to the front wheels on a RWD, I think the front tires do indeed have a bearing on "traction". 4 studded snows here.
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2005, 10:28 AM
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Tried it all ways but will now go with 4 Blizzaks. Tried 2 up front and 2 rear only but decided that the handling suffered.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2005, 10:29 AM
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snow job

The first thing to consider is the conditions you will usually drive in. In my part of Canada we get alot of snow and ice. These work against each other. For Ice you want a fairly wide tire that will put alot of rubber on the ice. For snow you want a narrow but tall tire with an agressive tread. This will allow you to cut down into the snow and get traction. If you get a wide tire on snow you seem to get bouyance instead of deep cutting action. You want a soft sticky rubber compound. However if you drive this type of tire on clear pavement that isn't cold, they wear like an eraser. So only use a soft compound in true winter not autumn or spring.

My jurisdiction (S. Ontario) doesn't allow studded tires because they allegedly tear up the roads, but I believe studs are legal in most of the other provinces for some periods of the year. Studs are a life saver in that on ice they greatly out stop non-studded snowtires and all season tires don't even compare. Studs help you get traction on ice or packed snow but are of little use in deep snow.

A colleague has to drive in the winter (fortunately I don't). He runs 4 snows in the winter and 4 touring tires in the summer. He views all weather or M+S tires as a compromise, one that he won't make.

It is all trade-offs, but start your analysis with your driving conditions.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:30 AM
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Likewise, I'm also in Ontario and we can't use studded tires here. Having soft snow tires on the front gives a huge difference to stopping distance on slick surfaces. Here it is often either packed slick snow or icy, and having snows on all wheels makes a massive difference. I use 4 snows on each car in the winter.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2005, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJG56
If I may respectfully disagree. Traction means more than just the rear wheels driving the car, Duh. Any tire provides "traction" just by being in contact with the ground.
traction - the drawing of a body (as a vehicle) along a plane or gradient by motive power. [ Webster's third new international dictionary (unabridged) 1993]
I don't want dissuade anyone here from holding fast to their own unique definition of a word. Little kids do it all the time and it's frequently cute. But I offer the definition here for those who want to discuss traction as it is understood by almost everyone else. Actually, any tire that is not driven actually rolls with frictional resistance on its bearings and subtracts a small amount of traction from the vehicle overall.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2005, 02:02 PM
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[QUOTE=Pete Burton]traction - the drawing of a body (as a vehicle) along a plane or gradient by motive power. [ Webster's third new international dictionary (unabridged) 1993]
traction - The adhesive friction of a body on a surface of which it moves. This also in the dictionary. So we both can find traction defined in the dictionary to prove what we each mean. If I were a betting person I would bet that 4 snow tires, with or without studs, will stop and corner better than only 2 in the rear of a RWD. There has to have been a test somewhere. And please, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, it just works out sometimes. JMHO.

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