Lowering 300E tips, anyone? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

iblu · #1 06-07-2005, 09:26 PM

I know there is more than one thread on this done already. But I am sooo excited to make one of my own!!! So sorry.

The time has come, my 180 horses are to get a new gait for the birthday.

Right now babe is riding with the top edge of the wheel well (or fender) about 2" above the tire edge in front and 2.5" in the rear. I really want to get that down to about 1"-1.5" just to make it even all around the tire (my tastes, I guess, are funky, but who cares, right?) without much risk of leaving the rest of my suspension somewhere on Mission or 3rd in SF.

My basic plan A is:
1)Eibach Pro Kit (1.2" lower than OEM all around); or H&R?.
2)Bilstein or Koni (which is better?) shocks/struts.

I am wondering how much comfort am I sacrificing? I have 17" AMG Aero II Monoblocks with 215/45/17, so I already can feel the grain in the pavement pretty well (plus some seriously exciting vibration at 90+mph). And how much attention do I have to pay to checking/replacing ball joints, bushings, various bars, etc before/while/after the changes.

So practically, if anyone has gone through dropping a couple inches with their w124 (there is no if, of course), please share your set-up, comfort/performance ratio feedback, overall tips, dos and don'ts, and anything else you think an idiot like me should at least consider.

Thanks.

Mbz81 · #2 06-07-2005, 10:20 PM

well this is what eibachs did to mine benz 1"front 1 1/2 back with stock absorber but its hard to see cause i dont know how to post bigger pictures

ksing44 · #3 06-08-2005, 04:39 AM

Based on my own experience and from others on the forums, I would say that the Eibach springs drop the rear much more than the front. With the Eibachs, I think most people are satisfied with a 1-bump front pad and a 2-bump rear pad to even things out with the drop. The 1-bump difference should give you and even gap from front to rear. I started with 1-bump at all four wheels and I thought my car was way too low in the back. It looked like I was carrying sand bags in the trunk and I thought it made the car look old and broken-down in the rear suspension. I did a lot of measuring trying to decide what to do to get it just right. My original measurements, before the drop, showed that my car was about ¼ inch higher in the back. I wanted to try to maintain the OEM profile but I wanted it just a little lower all around. I finally decided to go with 1-bump front and 3-bump rear, when I added the K-MAC eccentric rear bushings. I like it now and I have a symmetrical drop, but I think a 1-bump difference would have been just fine. Please check my pictures below.

I was told that Bilstein and Koni are "from the same shelf", meaning that they are very similar in quality. That said, however, I think you would find that Bilstein is the most highly recommended and used shock for the W124.

As for comfort, the Eibach springs are considered more comfortable than the H&R springs, although I have only ridden on the Eibachs, so I can't verify that. I am happy with my Eibach springs, but here are people who say that the Eibach springs are too soft and that they switched to and prefer the H&R springs. I think it is also true that H&R springs with Bilstein Sport shocks is the most common suspension set-up for the W124. Some guys are also saying great things about the Vogtland springs, so you might want to think about those too.

I have another comment about comfort. I think the bigger wheels with lower profile tires may have a bigger effect on comfort than the springs. The modifications are all additive, however, so the combination of the low profile tires, stiffer shocks, and lower springs will be less comfortable than just changing the wheels and tires alone.

Mbz81 · #4 06-08-2005, 11:33 AM

i have been reading about suspention and all about that but please can you tell me what is a bump pad or can you send me a picture cause mine benz is 1/2 inch higher at the back so if that is the thing to make it look even on both ends i would give it a try and im trying to put 17ins on it so please tell me what is that thing for pictures would be good 2 thanks Ahmo

Mbz81 · #5 06-08-2005, 11:34 AM

i have been reading about suspention and all about that but please can you tell me what is a bump pad or can you send me a picture cause mine benz is 1/2 inch higher at the back so if that is the thing to make it look even on both ends i would give it a try and im trying to put 17ins on it so please tell me what is that thing for pictures would be good 2 thanks Ahmo

ksing44 · #6 06-08-2005, 11:48 AM

Spring pads are available from the dealer for about $5.00 each. They are simply rubber cups that sit on top of the springs where they sit in the spring perch. They come in 1-bump, 2-bump, 3-bump and 4-bump sizes, which correspond to thicknesses of 8mm, 13mm, 18mm, and 23mm. I have read that a 5mm change in the thickness of the pad may translate to about a 7mm or 8mm change at the fender lip, because of the geometry of the suspension. You can count the little bumps on the edge of the cup/pad by slipping under your car and looking up at the top of the spring. The bumps are just little “bumps”. Check what you have now and just get 1-bump or 2-bump less for the switch. The only problem is that you have to remove the springs to replace the pads and you will need an alignment after you do the switch. It can be expensive for such a minor change, but it may be worth it if you think the rear is too high.

This one has a 3-bump pad.

Mbz81 · #7 06-08-2005, 07:53 PM

thanks ksing

lino · #8 06-08-2005, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksing44

With the Eibachs, I think most people are satisfied with a 1-bump front pad and a 2-bump rear pad to even things out with the drop. The 1-bump difference should give you and even gap from front to rear.

I finally decided to go with 1-bump front and 3-bump rear, when I added the K-MAC eccentric rear bushings. I like it now and I have a symmetrical drop, but I think a 1-bump difference would have been just fine.

So how did your car differ when you had 1 bump front + 2 bump rear compared to the 1 bump front + 3 bump rear that you have now?

manny · #9 06-08-2005, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lino

So how did your car differ when you had 1 bump front + 2 bump rear compared to the 1 bump front + 3 bump rear that you have now?

Going from the 2-bump to a 3-bump would raise the rearend of the car about 1/4", to retain the slight " nose down " rake, that the car was designed for by M-B!

You do not want the car to sit level, with no load.
Soon as you carry 2 persons in the backseat, it looks like your typical, neglected M-B with worn-out springs/suspension.

lino · #10 06-09-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny

Going from the 2-bump to a 3-bump would raise the rearend of the car about 1/4", to retain the slight " nose down " rake, that the car was designed for by M-B!

You do not want the car to sit level, with no load.
Soon as you carry 2 persons in the backseat, it looks like your typical, neglected M-B with worn-out springs/suspension.

Excellent! Makes total sense now. Thank You

. What bump pads do the cars come stock with, for eaxample on my 1989 300ce?

ksing44 · #11 06-09-2005, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny

Going from the 2-bump to a 3-bump would raise the rearend of the car about 1/4", to retain the slight " nose down " rake, that the car was designed for by M-B!

You do not want the car to sit level, with no load.
Soon as you carry 2 persons in the backseat, it looks like your typical, neglected M-B with worn-out springs/suspension.

That is exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I wanted a symmetrical drop to maintain the original profile from Mercedes. I think I succeeded, with the 2-bump difference, but the narrower gaps after the drop make any differences look very noticeable. I think the car looks best when the gaps are the same. On a BMW it seems to look good with the tires tucked in the rear, but exposed in the front. On my car, with 1-bump all around, I thought it looked neglected with the rear tires almost tucked, just as manny said. On the other hand, even ¼ inch higher, with the narrow gaps after the drop, can give too much of a nose down profile. I am happy with the 2-bump difference, but I think most people would be happy if they went with a 1-bump difference on the first try. I never even tried the 1-bump difference, because I installed the K-MAC bushings and switched from 1-bump to 3-bump pads all at one time. I have considered going back and trying the 2-bump pads in the rear, but it is a lot of work and cost for such a little change. As I said, I am happy with it now, but I think most people would be happy with only a 1-bump difference.

It is important to note that the pad combination just discussed only applies to the Eibach springs. I think the H&R springs lower the front more than the rear, so it is just the opposite for the H&Rs.

My car came stock with 3-bump pads at all four wheels. I think it might be a good thing to just minimize the pads, get stiffer shocks, and big swaybars. It wouldn't be quite as low, but it should avoid most camber issues, it should handle very well, and the ride comfort should be almost like stock.

need2speed · #12 06-09-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksing44

My car came stock with 3-bump pads at all four wheels. I think it might be a good thing to just minimize the pads, get stiffer shocks, and big swaybars. It wouldn't be quite as low, but it should avoid most camber issues, it should handle very well, and the ride comfort should be almost like stock.

I think you have a good idea there! After two years with an H&R/Bilstein/K-Mac set-up, I'm switching back to stock suspension for better ride comfort, using thinner spring pads to slightly lower the car instead. Aside from ride harshness, the extra wear on tires and the noise from the K-Mac bushings are too much for everyday driving on our crappy roads.

ksing44 · #13 06-09-2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need2speed

I think you have a good idea there! After two years with an H&R/Bilstein/K-Mac set-up, I'm switching back to stock suspension for better ride comfort, using thinner spring pads to slightly lower the car instead. Aside from ride harshness, the extra wear on tires and the noise from the K-Mac bushings are too much for everyday driving on our crappy roads.

Are you getting the classic “polyurethane squeak” from your K-MAC bushings? If you are, how long did it take to develop after you installed the bushings? Were they noisy from day 1, or did it start after a couple of years? Mine don’t seem to make any noise, but I have only had them for 3 years. I think my mechanic must have lubed them well with the proper polyurethane-specific lubricant. I suppose they could start to make some noise at any time and I guess it would be difficult to lubricate them properly without removing the hardware. That would be a big job, just for lubrication, and then you would need an alignment too.

I don’t find the ride to be overly harsh with the Eibach springs. In fact, I would find it hard to go back to the softer ride that I had before the change. Now when I ride in other cars, I start to feel seasick from the floating feeling. I suppose the HD shocks might be sufficient to reduce that soft floating feeling, but I also like the slightly lower look. Mine isn’t really very much lower, so maybe I have been lucky to not have too many problems. My last tires lasted 22K miles, so I don’t think it is too bad. I also just increased the toe-in to see if might take some pressure off the inside of the tires and I am rotating the tires with every oil change. I run Grand Touring tires, not Max Performance tires, so maybe that also helps me get a little more life from my tires. I am not ready to give up yet.

I have read that the H&Rs are stiffer, but plenty of people seem to like it that way. I think they also lower the ride height a bit more than the Eibach springs, so maybe I am lucky that I went with the Eibach springs. Right after I did the modification, I was actually thinking that I probably should have gone with the H&R springs and the Bilstein Sport shocks, instead of the Eibach Pro-kit springs and the Bilstein HD shocks. It just seemed that I was hearing a lot of praise for the H&R set-up, compared the Eibachs. I guess it was “the grass is always greener” kind of envy.

Anyway, I am happy with everything now, but it really is a little more complicated than most people seem to admit on these forums.

lino · #14 06-09-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksing44

I have read that the H&Rs are stiffer, but plenty of people seem to like it that way. I think they also lower the ride height a bit more than the Eibach springs, so maybe I am lucky that I went with the Eibach springs. Right after I did the modification, I was actually thinking that I probably should have gone with the H&R springs and the Bilstein Sport shocks, instead of the Eibach Pro-kit springs and the Bilstein HD shocks. It just seemed that I was hearing a lot of praise for the H&R set-up, compared the Eibachs. I guess it was “the grass is always greener” kind of envy.

Anyway, I am happy with everything now, but it really is a little more complicated than most people seem to admit on these forums.

I have the Bilstein HD on my coupe and I want to get the Eibach springs like you did. You have been the most convincing of anyone I've seen yet on this subject. I love your posts! I have learned so much from you. Also, I don't want the H&R springs, beacuse they are known to be more agressive. I want a mild drop for the look and also want to enjoy a decent ride. I don't race this car.

ksing44 · #15 06-09-2005, 07:23 PM

It really does start to feel like we are all friends and that we are in this together. I am glad you like reading my posts, but I only hope that I don't mislead you about anything. I am truly not an expert of any kind. I don't even do the work myself. I just love my car and I want to try to do things to make it even more special. What I have figured out so far has been by trial and error. It really is a bit difficult to figure it out and it really does seem to be true that any changes are a compromise of sorts. Suspension performance "upgrades" really do come with a cost of degraded ride comfort. Big swaybars may be the one exception and I still don't have them.

First it was my water pump and then my "Check Engine" light went on. It turned out to be the kickdown actuator in the transmission. I ended up with a new Bowden cable and they replaced quite a few seals as a preventative measure, since going into the transmission is a time consuming and therefore expensive activity. I also decided to get a new Mercedes battery, since mine was 6 years old. Anyway, my wife started giving me the business, so I decided that I was going to have to wait for my "Sportline Plus" swaybars. I sure hope next year is the finally my moment, or maybe for Christmas. I definitely won't be for Father's Day. I guess waiting will just make it that much sweeter.

Good luck with your car. I really do think the Eibachs are OK, in spite of some of the negative comments from others. I guess if you want to "slam" your car or if you want to race, then you would be disappointed with the Eibach springs. If you are more like me, and you use the car as your daily driver, then I think you may be satisfied with the Eibachs. There is still some degradation in the ride comfort, although I actually prefer the firmer ride now. There may also be issues with alignments and the camber, but I think it has to be less of a problem than with springs that lower the car even more.

As I said, good luck with your car.

Sincerely,

Ken

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