I'm planning to upgrade my 500E shortly to 17" rolling stock...likely AMG 5 spoke 17 X 8.5" with 245/45ZR-17 Michelin Pilots (Lee, they'd better be good!!). Now, as I understand it some later E500s came with 17 X 8.25" Evo II rims, so what I'm wondering is whether the 17"-equipped cars had any different suspension components, like struts or roll bars? I want to minimize the impact harshness the 17s will invariably increase, so swapping out the front struts or the roll bars is not out of the question.

I called MBUSA and no one had heard of either an E500 with 17s, or the ultra-limited production E500 "Limited" that I know came with the Evo II wheels.

Any insight would be appreciated.



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Best regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

You can minimize impact harshness by selecting the right tires and the lightest wheels. Unsprung weight has a great impact on ride, acceleration, braking, and handling. Try to stay close to the original weight as possible. The Pilot SX's are known to have a stiff, relatively harsh ride, so you may want to consider the Pilot Sports instead.

I don't know the weight of the AMG, but the BBS RC and RK are some of the lightess wheels available (about 19 lbs). Of course there are also custom made forged wheels from Fikse, Kenesis, and Forgeline that are worth considering. The Forgeline wheels save me 10 lbs per corner on my SEL and they greatly improved the ride and acceleration. Have fun and good luck.

Michael,
While not having data in front of me, it would be quite logical to assume the AMG blocks are significantly heavier compared to the stuff from BBS. To minimize the weight I'd opt for something from BBS. The BBS RC is a personal favorite of mine but anything from BBS should do quite well in all regards. As far as I know there were not any suspension differences between the E500's with 17's and the "normal" E500's.

The Pilot Sports are supposed to have all the handling of the MXX3's but be better in the wet, last longer, and ride softer. Judging by the test results I've seen they hit 2 out of 3. (may not have quite the response or grip of the MXX3 but still a good trade/balance) If ride is a priority then they are a tire to seriously consider. You could also try the Dunlop 9000. It is supposed to have touring tire traits (ride comfort and quiet) but it will not handle on par with the other performance tires in its class. All things considered, I'd give the not to the Pilot Sports. Let us know how it works for you.

Hope this helps...Lee

Thanks for the advice, gentlemen...I'm gonna try the Pilot Sports; as for the wheels, I'm still on the fence but am looking into the weight differences.

Thanks again, Michael

Michael,

How do the tires feel? I also am interested in what you are doing with your old wheels. Are they available?

Brad

I ended up with AMG Sport 5-spoke wheels in 17" X 8.5". Tires are Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4, as I wanted more wear than a Sport can offer.

This setup works awesome on this car! Every single dynamic characteristic has improved, and the ride hasn't suffered one bit!

If you have a 500E, I assure you that these cars were DESIGNED for 17s; truly a transformation of an already nice-handling car !!

AS to the old wheels, I use them for winter tires. However, I do have one OE wheel that was recently refinished/never mounted, as well as two slightly damaged wheels ready for refinishing that are available. If you're interested let me know; I'll let 'em go cheap.

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Best regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-26-2000).]

One of my best friend's dad had an E500, just traded it in for an E55 (now kompressed by Lorinser) but he got some wheels on it. We did a little research as to which would be the best options. We ended up with:

AMG 2-piece SL 5-spokes. These are 18x8.5 et25 front, 18x10 et25 rear. They were costly, but looked sharp as anything. I think they were close to $1000 each.
Bekkers Replicas of the AMG 2-piece SL 5-spokes. They are basically exact look-a-likes of the 2-piece but are 1 piece rims. They are much cheaper, something like $365 a piece.
AMG Monoblocks. AAA Rims (http://www.aaarims.com/index.html) have the monoblocks on sale in 17x8, and 18x9 for $345.
AMG Monoblock replica from Bekkers. Again these are replicas, so cost cheaper. They are 17x8 et 35 up front, and 18x9 et 38 for $289.
BBS RSII 18x8.5 front, 18x10 rear. They are pretty costly but just as sharp as the AMG, except the AMG look at home on the MB.
Carlsson 2/5 18x8.5 front, 18x10 rear.
AMG 3-piece 17x8.5 front, 17x10 rear.

He ended up getting the AMG SL replicas from bekkers.

for the 17" evolutoion wheels, you can go to AAA rims, and they have the 17x8.25" in $295.

Sow that said, get the wide tires in the rear if you go with wide wheels back there.

He went with 275/35/18 in the rear, wearing Pirelli P7000 Supersports. He went to Michelin Pilot XGT Z4 up front in 245/40/18. If you go with 17" then use 245/45/17 in Dunlop SP5000 for $127. If you want all performance and do care much about wear, mileage and all-season capability, then go Michelin Pilot Sports all the way around.

Don't forget; proper rotation can get you 35-40k in a fairly serious tire, making it more cost responsible (yeah; married, 3 kids) and easier to make the arguement for seriousd rubber.

If you're not made of money, being able to rotate and gain mileage at the expense of minimal traction gains from a start/ curb appeal is worth considering. I simply can't afford to not rotate and have my Porsche-spec W124 eat a set of both front and rear Sports every 20k. I mean, Lee and others, chime in here; you've all seen what a 500E does to rear tires. eh??? Feathers them wildly, since torque's not thinking much about treadlife. Being able to move those poor rears to the front for some R&R is a decent respite for the poor suckers .

But I can't argue that a set of 10" wide rears wouldn't fill out the rear fenders nicely, and they would make the car understeer a bit more.

That said, good luck considering your options!




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Best regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

500E's can really chew up tires period. Both front and rear. That car, while ungodly impressive to drive, has a combination that is just plain hard on tires. A)high curb weight B)lots of torque C) lots of torque (yes, enough to mention twice) D)very capable brakes E)suspension that allows/encourages spirited driving F)aggressive alignment specs for a street car and of course G)a driven demographic that tends towards being harder on tires than say...your average diesel driver. To some degree, you have to conceed the car's large apetite for expensive rubber as part of the price of admission.

That said, it does have the advantage that 99% of them have ASR constantly active. Without ASR, that car would eat rear rubber like popcorn. Another arguement for a staggered setup would be that the rears would spin less with 10" wide rubber back there. It would encourage understeer but the car hits ASR (impending oversteer) rather easily with some right foot so an easy solution presents itself. Still, with a 245 front footprint understeer will take its time...

As for total recommendations: put snows on the OEM's and have that for winter, run either 245/45/17 on all four corners (remember that directional/asymetric tires can limit your rotation options) or just bite the bullet and enjoy the car to the fullest with staggered max performance tires. Say some 245/45/17's up front with some 275's in back... Replace tires as needed. The money you save on therapy can go towards fresh tires...j/k

Hope this helps...Lee

I have just changed to the EVO II wheels with the Michelin Pilot XGT's and can echo Michael's commentary--the car really responds well to the new combination. It has better turn-in without a harsh ride. While I haven't had the tires on that long yet, it is a marked improvement. I got these from Bekkers, and they show up in a little Mercedes OEM box, so if Lee wants the part number, it's on the box. I 'spect that the AMG chip/airbox, Lorinser/Remus exhaust, and Renntech first gear valve body are next....then brakes...then....etc

I have the EVO II wheels with Yoko AVS sports...love 'em, love'em, love'em. I see though, mr. nelson, that you have fallen in to the inexorable upgrade downward spiral...see you at the bottom! (someday....someday soon, I WILL find time to put on the AMG suspension...)

John

Unfortunately, I am in the ultimate downgrade spiral; I'm running a 1988 Tyrrell/Cosworth 017 in the BOSS series this year. You think a 500E goes, WOW! what a difference a real F1 car makes....doesn't do the grocery duty, but BRAKES are beyond description. Our data acquisition shows we get -1 G just getting out of the throttle in maximum downforce configuration. Road Atlanta late April, Watkins Glen early June, if anyone's interested....

Jim-
Are you driving in the Walter Mitty at Road Atlanta? I never miss that so if you're there I'll look for you.

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Bill Wood - Webmaster
MercedesShop.com, LLC

Yes, Bill, the first round of the BOSS series for 2000 will be sanctioned by HSR and will take place at Road Atlanta. You can see a picture of the car at http://www.vintageracecar.com/pages/newsbriefs/newsbriefs2.cfm. We rolled the car out in mid-January; it has a lot of new components, so we've undertaken a fairly cautious run-in.
We will be there to win the race, though.

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'93 500E
'88 Tyrrell/Cosworth DFZ 017
'95 Ducati 916
'00 Ducati MH900e

What a beautiful car! Driven by Dr Jonathan Palmer. Ken Tyrrell is certainly one of the true geniuses of the sport. I saw the 6 wheel Tyrrells race at Watkins Glen in 1976. Unbelievable!
I'll look you up when you're here at the end of April.

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Bill Wood - Webmaster
MercedesShop.com, LLC