Dave,

Here are my dos centavos...and I know I'm gonna have my manhood called into question, but here goes:

I bought my 92 500E in 11/00 with stock wheels and Michelin 225/55 XGTV (I think) M+S tires. After much reading of these boards, it sounded like upgrading to 17-in wheels and 245/45 tires was a no-brainer. I bought a set of 17-in AMG 5-spokes and Bridgestone PP S0-3s in May of 01, and put 3000 miles on them before switching to snows last December.

Now I live in SE Mich, land of the cratered asphalt, and in some stretches (Mich Ave in Dearborn, for example) the car rode so hard and rough over the pavement that it was shocking. On that particular Dearbor trip (to Miller's Bar, home of the best burgers around), I even had along a friend of mine who is in the car magazine business, is v. familiar with the 500E and even he couldn't abide by the car's uncivilized behavior.

I see that you are in NE PA and I imagine your roads may be as bad as ours. On smooth pavement, the 17s and 245/45s are nice, but on bad pavement, the backside cries out for that extra measure of sidewall in the 16s and 225/55s. This was highlighted for me when I switched back to my 16-in snows--the ride was so much more relaxed!

If traction and handling are your priority, then go for the 17s. If you want a smooth relaxed ride, stick with OEM. I'm convinced the M-B engineers knew best.

BTW, anybody want a set of 17-in AMGs and B'stone PP S0-3s with 3k mi on them?

Kirk
1992 500E
53K mi

Kirk- I'm wondering if possibly your rear suspension hydraulics need a little attention? (nitrogen spheres and fluid flush service)

...interesting, haven't heard of any owners complaining of an extraordinarily harsh ride with their plus 1 upgrade on a 500e/e500.

In either case, someone here may be interested in your 17" wheels and tires, can you share how much you are looking to recover from them?

tks-fad

Kirk- I'm running 17-inch AMG 3-piece modular wheels with Dunlop SP8000 245/45 and the ride is fine but firm, esp. since it's my wife's car and she'd be the first to complain.

Make sure your tire pressure isn't too high. Something like 36-PSI rear and 32-PSI front.

Also, if your rear is riding like a pogo stick, definitely get your nitrogen-sphere replaced. The spheres provide the damping function, not the struts.

As FAD said, flush the self-levelling and change out the filter as well.

:-) neil

Hmmm...

Now that fad and neil mention it, I have recently noticed a sort of clunking sound coming from the RR trunk-ish area, especially over raliroad track crossings and similar expansion-joint-type surfaces. I have been thinking about flushing the rear self-leveling system anyway. Does a clunking sound such as I've desecribed sound like a nitrogen sphere trouble?

fad, let me look into this rear susp situation before I unload these wheels. They sure do look good on the car, and with 16s the only option I've seen are the regular 8-holes.

BTW, fad, enjoying the Automobile Magazine article I faxed to you?

Cheers,
Kirk

Kirk-

thanks so much for sharing the article- we seem to share an insatiable need to acquire as much info on our cars as possible. Dean's 'need to speed' site appears to be the most comprehensive collection of articles gathered so far.

re: rear suspension
...I have a feeling that once you've flushed the rear & changed the filter and/or addressed a rear shock/strut or rear shock/strut bushing causing the the clunking- - - you may like the ride of the 17" much better...if not, let me know- I may have an interest in picking them up from you (hope my wife won't object). At this point, it may be a good idea to have a knowledgable tech review the entire suspension front and rear for refreshening?

I did not experience any clunking noise when my nitrogen spheres were the cause of a harsh rear ride ('94 E500 @ 37.5k). The rear ride appeared like it had no shock absorption and therefore appeared very jarring over bumps at speeds over ~15mph, but expecially noticable on the freeway.

hope this helps, and let us know how all turns out.

Neil- I'm running Dunlop SP9000's on my '88 BMW 325is w/ plus 1 BBS, Bilstein Sport, & a new suspension incl: urethane bushings front and rear. My impressions of the SP9000 vs. the S-03's is that the the S-03's are a vastly superior tire in every respect: performance/noise/comfort/wear.

-fad

fad,

Thanks for the advice, and glad you enjoyed the article. I plan on having the car in the shop this spring for a complete refresh--fluids, suspension inspection, etc. Last year I spent less than $100 on maintenance (just DIY oil and filter changes) and am still grooving on that low cost outlay for 2001. I'll pop for more work in '02, but the car's in such great shape overall it hasn't needed to visit the shop. With 53k on the odo and the car approaching its 10th b-day (born 3/92) I think I'll just do the 60k service a little early.

I'll keep you in mind for the wheels and tires once I figure out this suspension business.

Thanks again to all for the help!

Kirk

I would check the rear swaybar bushings and the rear links for wear.

Also, do the "clunking" sound happen only in corners? Sometimes the rear swaybar will hit the self-levelling valve's mounting bracket.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

If the clunking sounds like a shock mount, it's likely a hydro strut...that's what happened to me once.

But something's definitely wrong, Kirk, 'cuz I've just installed brutally stiff-sidewalled Michelin Pilot MXX3s in 245/45-17, and my car still rides beautifully (and I just drove through the worst roads in Hartford, CT to prove it!!), if perhaps 10-15% stiffer than stock. But what grip!!

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

Michael and Neil,

First Neil:

No, the clunking is not in turns; only when going over sharp-impact objects like railroad tracks or manhole covers (where the cover is set below the level of the asphalt) and almost exclusively when traveling in a straight line. Then I'll hear a hollow clunking sound with each impact--almost like someone whacking on a metal drum--and it seems like it's coming from somewhere in the trunk, right around the wheelwell area.

Now Michael:

I had Pilot MXX3s on my '87 944 Turbo, so I know what you mean by stiff sidewalls. This is all certainly pointing to something more than tires, and I'll be sure to get this looked at. Is there anyway to visually ID a bad hydro mount, or to tell if the nitrogen spheres are shot?

Thanks to all of you guys for your help. This board is a tremendous asset, and it's due to the great quality of the people who frequent it. Thanks again to all!

Kirk

allenjdmb- I'm running stock size 225/55/16 WR rating S-03's

-fad

I just went for the stock size S0-3's.

Thanks for the input.

I'll let you know how they run at Pocono next month!

Can't wait to get the snows off.

++db

PS. Luke, I used your email as the salesperson I 'talked' to.

just wanted to pass some info I've heard re: tire "wear ratings" ie 100,200,300,400, etc.

I've been told that the wear ratings are extremely subjective- and are determined solely according to the manufacturer of the tire-

the wear ratings #'s refers to comparative wear between the same manufacturer's different model tires only (not across tire brands- mich vs yoko)

anyone heard this or anything different?

-fad

FAD-

Yup, that's how they do it. Amazing, eh?

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

this is quite amazing!

...especially since 100% of the layperson folks (not in the tire business) I've interacted with do not appear to recognize this when comparing tires across brands; they assume that a 200 wear rating in a Yoko is comparable to a 200 wear rating in a Mich or Pirelli

also,...especially since 99.99% of the retail tire folks I've interacted with fail to inform you of this when comparing tires across brands (w/ the exception of 30k/40k/50k/60k wear warranties) and naturally they are incented to move product with the highest margin and/or incentives at any given time

in either case, for myself I've recognized a tire's wear rating # simply as a general barometer to indicate just how fast a tire will wear out (standing on its own)- - if I see a 100-200 rating, I'd expect a very quick wearing tire ~10-15K+/- miles before wearing out, on a 300 rating I'd expect 15k-25k+/-, etc.

fwiw- I got 22K out of a set of P6000 Summer's on my stock '94 E320 Coupe. P6000 Summer are a good natured fit to the E320 but have a wear rating quite low at 180. The shop manager was surprised that they lasted that long- his experience was around 15k or less for a relatively heavy E320.

hope this helps
-fad

The previous owner of my 500 burned thru P6000s-why he replaced them with the same item is beyond me (they suck-are loud and clearly wear poorly; relatively sticky & good handling tho I'll admit)

As to wear ratings, I've actually found they are a pretty good indicator-I've not been flagrantly burned by Toyo, Michelin, BFG, Conti, or Pirelli

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo