I just got a call from the dealer. They couldn't align the car because I have a broken tie rod!

They're replacing it for $108, installed.

I guess this must've been causing my tire balance / vibration problem.

I've never heard of a tie rod breaking before. I've heard of them wearing out.

How could it break? In the middle, like a stick? Or could the 'axis joint' have broken?

Why didn't I lose control of the steering if it was broken?

Hmmmmmm.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Paul,

I hope the choice of words is all that is awry here. If the joint is worn out, it is possible someone might say it is "broken" just because they are not really precise with their word selection.

I doubt your steering would function at all if it had broken like a stick. With worn out joints on either end, or just one, you should have been experiencing some kind of sign, like play or a larger dead zone when you turn the wheel one way and then the other.

Let us know what you find out though, as a broken in half, like a stick tie rod is hard for me envision. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

That's a sure way NOT to get you back, huh?
Who is this dealer? Maybe a letter to Customer Relations at MB in Montvale, NJ is in order.
Do they give you a rating card after every service? give them a 1.
Wait, was the alignment part of the $180 or just balancing? If it was, that's fair. They did troubleshoot the rods, though.

Not to make you feel worse but I took my car to Rallye yesterday at 4PM(had an appointment for the 28th) to get my wheels checked on the GSP9700 because of a vibration at 60-75mph. Happy that they took me in, I called my wife to pick me up. I BS'd with the service mgr about putting 18" aftermarket wheels and tires while I was waiting for my ride. I then went to the showroom to ask why the '03 CLK55s were getting the 18" wheels, etc, etc, and just when I think I was about to convince them to let me trade in my 17"s for the 18"s when they came in, I was paged and told my car was ready! 45 mins. My wife was pissed that she came for nothing, but I sure was happy. All 4 wheels had new weights on them. Oh, no charge.

Ray

I'd like to wrap this up and mail it.

You know, put it in a pan and bake it in the oven.

Picked up the car this morning, and everything was resolved:

1. I demanded to speak to a manger. The $180 quote I was given for the Hunter GSP 9700 force variation balance machine was wrong. The service manager didn't know where the numbnuts assistant got it. Besides, it's the only balance machine they use, he explained. I paid $59 for the wheel balance on the Hunter GSP Force Variation balance machine, $91 for the alignment, and $108 for a new left tie rod.

2. Yes, the tie rod was not broken, the end was worn out, and they couldn't properly align the car. The female assistant to the numbnuts service advisor used the wrong term. The tie rod wasn't broken.

3. The car tracks straight as an arrow, the steering has tightened up a bit, and the tires run as smooth as glass at 80 mph.

In retrospect, I think I have to admit the Goodyear tires probably weren't bad, they just needed to be balanced on the Hunter GSP 9700 to balance each specific tire to each specific wheel. Every tire / wheel combination is different. They let me look at the machine balance another customer's tire. The cylinder that is pressed against the tire exerts 1,400 lbs of pressure, simulating your tire against the road. It picks up all tire / wheel out of round conditions and corrects for it.

My vibration problem was surely a combination of a bad tire balance, and a worn out component (tie rod end).

Case closed.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Go have some fun. Give yourself a weekend on a race track to enjoy exploring the tire-shredding limits of your car's handling.
Promise yourself to ruin those tires before you're done.
Then pick up your Michelins, and drive sensibly.

Have you checked the air pressure in your tires?

Of course I checked the air pressure in the tires.

I appreciate your input, but if you read all of the posts on this thread to its conclusion on 3-22-02, you will read how the problem was resolved.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

The GSP9700 is a fabulous piece of engineering. For a tire that does not balance on a properly operating, run of the mill computer balancer, putting it on the 9700 is the next logical step. Most premium tires, however, will not require the use of the 9700.

I personally believe that the most common problem with wheel balancing is getting the kid at the tire store to do it right. Typically, on an alloy wheel, they INSIST on pressing the static balance button on the machine and putting the weight ONLY on the inside rim of the wheel. In most cases, this does more harm than if the wheel were just bolted on with no balance at all. This method does no better than a bubble balancer. Actually if you did it on a bubble balancer AND split the weight between the inner and outer, you would have a better chance of acceptable balance.

The computer balancers, basically ANY of them, if they are in proper working order, are capable of doing a GREAT job balancing most premium tires. It is those tire that have excessive road force problems, a broken belt, or other anomalies that require the in depth analysis that only the GSP 9700 is capable of offering.

The type of wheel weight has little to do with the quality of the balance job, as long as the balancer is used for DYNAMIC balance.

Balance is one issue, and out of round, excessive or insufficient road force or broken belts are another issue. The long and short is, a tire in good shape can be properly balanced without the 9700, it's for the exception cases.

BTW In order for clip on weights to stay put, they must be the correct type for the wheel. There are now about a dozen different weight types. I feel sorry for the tire stores who have to keep an inventory of ALL these different types. Often they don't have the proper type for Benz wheels. If you don't use the correct type, they probably won't stay on the wheel, period.

The correct type for a Benz alloy wheel is EN for a one piece weight which can easily scratch the wheel. The Benz two piece weight is called type MBN and if installed properly will not scratch the wheel. It takes a special tool for the MBN type.

The other alternative is to clip the weight on the inner rim and use a tape weight as far toward the outside of the wheel as possible. The taped weight will not show, and if the person is careful, they can balance the wheel dynamically using this method. All except the cheapest or oldest computer balancers even have a mode that will tell you what size weight to tape on the outer plane, just inboard from the spokes.

Have a great day,

Great post, Larry.

I can't agree more with everything you wrote. The biggest obstacles in getting a good balance are: operator error and mounting the weights on the inside of the wheel only. They often don't know how to use the machines properly (even though they swear they do).

They also insist on using tape-on weights on the inside of the wheels only, and it's very hard to get a proper balance this way.

Yes, the 9700 is really useful for the exception, not the rule. It's great for when you have a wheel force vibration problem - basically for when you have a tire that has too much variation in the difference between the stiff spots and soft spots in the side wall in the tire, that a regular machine can't identify. The 9700 is also helpful when you have a wheel that is too out of round. They 9700 can match up each tire's characteristics with each wheels roundness (or out-of-roundness).

A good operator can balance 98% of the tires with weights on the inside and outside of the wheels when using the wheel balance machine properly.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".