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  #1  
Old 05-09-2000, 11:15 AM
DuckMuck's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Posts: 804
Hello People,

I have a 1995 Mercedes-Benz E420 (W124) which came w/ a set of 195/65HR15 Continental ContiTouring Contact CH95's. I may be be replacing these tires soon, and have been frequenting this section of the forum for the past month. From what I have read, I have decided to get 215/60R15 tires, so I can still use the OEM rims that came with my car, but have a bit more contact with the road. I like the suggestions about gettin' the Michelin Pilot XGT V4's. However, I am still a bit concerned about the overwhelming costs of these tires, and still a little unsure about the 215/60R15 sizing (are you guys DEFINITELY sure this size will work???). I asked the mechanic at the Mercedes dealership which services my vehicle, and he suggests that I remain using CH95's with the original sizing. He also says that he has never seen or heard of people sticking 215/60R15 tires on the original rims, which makes me a "tad" bit concerned. So, being paranoid, I just wanted to double check with you guys. Thanx a lot!

------------------
1995 Mercedes-Benz E420 (W124 - Black Pearl/Black)
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2000, 03:02 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
No offense, but dealers will always suggest sticking with OEM everything!!! The 215/60/15 will fit fine, and so will the 205/60/15 (They were stock on the sportline.) Seeing that you are in Canada, I was wondering if you have snow in the Winter. If you do, I wouldn't recommend an Ultra High Performance All-Season becuase I don not believe they will meet your winter needs. I would go with dedicated winter tires (in the stock size of 195/65/15) and upgrade an extra set of wheels.

Recommendations:

Cheapest - Getting the 15x7 OE Wheels from TireRack that are only $35 a piece. Great Price, and MB quality. It pays for itself cause you wouldn't have to switch tires of your stock rims, just switch wheels and go.

Replicas - Getting 16x7.5" 8-hole replicas from TireRack for $129 and putting 225/50/16 on the rest of the year will give you much better performance.

Ebay - Sometimes you can find good wheels on sale on Ebay (Becareful about people who try to scam you, usually do have fancy web pages and make aliving off of this.) The bets buyers are your common folks trying to sell the wheels and thats it.

This guy bought his wheels from TireRack and doesn't like them I guess. Ask what are the specs on his tire/wheel package and double check to make sure they work on your car.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=325410820

Here are some used Chrome Lorinsers RS90 in 17x8 ET 33 which I belive fits but might rub with 225/45/17, so be careful.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=324999882

Below are some nice ones, 18x8 AMG Monoblock II which would require 225/40/18.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=325748490

Tires: If you get dedicated winter tires, don't get a compromised Summer tire unless if you are stuck on getting the best tire wear (which usually is a compromise leading back to All-Season tires) and loosing the potential of getting better tires.

215/60/15:
Firestone Firehawk SH30 High-Performance All-Season (better for touring) expect long mileage (about 50-65k) and are H-rated (130mph) and offer very good wet weather characteristics for a tire in this category (OE Plus "0"/OE replacement sized tires) and are very touring-minded. $63/each from TireRack.

Michelin Pilot XGT H4 if you have to get Michelin and want an H-rate tire. They are very close to Firestones with the Michelin Name, expect 50k miles. $82/each.

Michelin Pilot XGT V4 if you want an Ultra-High Performance Tire that offers better handling and still gives decent wear (expect 20-25k miles) $115/each

225/50/16: If you go with 16" wheels for your summer tires, and keep the stock 15" for winter, then this is the size -

Yokohama Avid V4 offer a 45k mile warranty and are V-rated (149mph) and are also All-Season rated. They are more touring minded then Performance, but they offer the mileage out of a tire. $84/each.

Dunlop SP Sport 5000 Asymmetrical are a very nice balance. They wear quick at first when braking them in, but then there are no complaints. I have them and love them. I would expect 25-30k miles, and offer great handling for an All-Season tire. They are W-rated (168mph) and cost $97/each. They are great in wet or dry weather.

Bridgestone Potenza RE730 offer great!! weather traction (an AA rating) and decent wear (UTOG 300) while being economical for its category. They are Z-rated (149+mph) and offer very good hanlding (better then a
Dunlop SP Sport 5000) and costs are pretty decent for a dedicated Ultra-High Performance Tire at $107.

For a Maximum Performance Tire Incredible traction in wet and dry and offer no compromise are the Dunlop SP Sport 9000. They are incredible in wet weather and are quite for a tire in this category. Many Sport/Luxury car owners do choose these because they wear a netter then the others in this category. $166/each

And If you have to have Michelin, The Pilot Sport very close to the Dunlop SP Sport 9000, for $216/each

I recommend the Bridgestone RE730 because of the price and I believe if you get alot of rain (alot!!) I would consider the Dunlop SP Sport 9000 (untouchable) for standing wet water and will almost eliminate hydroplaning.

For the 17, go 215/45/17 and Bridgeston Potenza RE730 or Dunlop SP Sport 9000 (cheap for a special of $139) and for 18", go 225/40/18 and Dunlop SP Sport 9000 since they are the same price as the Bridgestone Potenza RE730.

Sorry for the Long Posts, but I usually explain it all at once. If you aren't asleep by now, you should have a better idea of what to prepare for.

Good Luck.

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)

[This message has been edited by Chiragp (edited 05-09-2000).]
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2000, 03:20 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
Recommendations for Winter tires that I did not mention in 195/65/15:

Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50. They offer better braking/handling traction in snow then having a 4matic/4wd with all-season tires on them. Motor Trend or Car and Driver did a test using E320s (RWD and 4matic) and Audi A6 (FWD and Quattro) and basically they came to the conclusion that 4wd will help under acceleration because all the power is divided between 4 wheels, not 2. Second, Winter Tires make an incredible difference and even though All-season tire have bridged the gap, they are still a compromise. Winter tires have also advanced, and so they still offer better handling. Third, the 4wd vehicles with winter tires performed the best, but the 2wd with winter tires were very close in terms of hanlding the snow. It proves that Winter tires are better then 4wd!!

If you want to have a more Perfomance-oriented winter tire (read compromise) then Dunlop Winter Sport M2 are T-rated and handle a little better then a Q-rated (read musshy, 99mph top speed) tire would.

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2000, 04:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 530
If you want the best performance tire that you can put on the car, bar none, get the Michelin Pilot SX-GT in a 205/60VR15. Do NOT get a 215/60R15. It causes excessive wrappage on the 6.5" wheel and decreases performance. There is a reason why Mercedes used a 205/60/15 on the Sportline models even though the 215/60/15 is a better fit (by the numbers) -- AND the Sportline's had a 7" rim and they STILL used a 205. Don't get a 215. And if you aren't getting a tire that comes only in 205/60/15, stick with stock size.

If you have any more questions, email me. Also, for winter performance tires, stick with Michelin Pilot Alpin.

------------------
1997 Mercedes-Benz E420
(W210)
Michelin Pilot XGT Z4
P225/55ZR16
soon to be
Michelin Pilot HX MXM
235/50WR16

1997 Mercedes-Benz C280
(W202)
Michelin Pilot SX-GT
205/60VR15

1988 Mercedes-Benz 260E
(W124)
Michelin Pilot HX MXV3-A
195/65HR15
soon to be
Michelin Pilot SX-GT
205/60VR15
(on 15" x 7J Sportline model 8-hole wheels)
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2000, 05:46 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
I have not heard anything about excessive wrappage, but if this is so, I also would suggest 205/60/15, it will offer a more "precise" feel while the 215/60/15 would offer better handling. I really haven't heard any problems with people who have 215/60/15 on them right now, who knows. I had no problems when we used them on the stock wheels of the 260E (weren't as many sizes back then anyway.) As for as my recommendations, just like before except delete the Michelin Pilot XGT V4, instead I would agree with Dsinger (Michelin Pilot SX-GT) as they are the only Ultra High Performance tire I would buy in that size (205/60/15.)

As for winter Tires:

I would suggest sticking with the stock size (the skinnier) because the wider a tire is, the more it plows through the snow instead of cutting through it. And the more and more the tires plow through the snow, the more the tendency to be pushed to the limit and they slip. The reason I recommend the Sunlop Winter Sports instead of the Michelin Pilot Alpin are not made in 195/65/15 (stock size) and the only Sport Winter tire are the Dunlops. As for regular Winter Tires, the Blizzak family is hard to touch.

You will find many people (Dsinger and Lee) recommending the Michelins, (Michael) recommending the Toyos, and others recommending other brands, only thing I can say is it depends a little on what kind of tire you are looking for.

The following link is a one of the other Posts were Luke from TireRack (the moderator and guru of tires and wheels) lists some of his recommendations in general, without looking at any one paticular size. If you are looking for a tire and don't know what to go with, call TireRack and they will throughout some recommendations as well. Remember that they are the cheapest around. Goto a local NTB and have them order through TireRack, save yourself money.
WHAT LUKE RECOMMENDS

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)

[This message has been edited by Chiragp (edited 05-09-2000).]
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2000, 06:41 PM
DuckMuck's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Posts: 804
Thanx a lot DSinger and Chriagp (especially) for the quick and complete replies! The weather is very mild here in Vancouver, and contrary to popular belief, it barely snows in Vancouver (maybe 1 or 2 cm of snow for 1 day of the year???), so I wouldn't consider getting a set of tires exclusively for the summer, and another set for the winter. However, I would prefer all-season tires over simply summer tires, just for "peace-of-mind." I would REALLY like ultra-high performance (at LEAST V-Rated) tires, and as noted earlier, a slightly larger size. Okay, so after readin' through your stuff, I rule out the idea of gettin' 215/60R15 tires...so I am gonna get 205/60R15 as you guys suggested (unless somebody can speak to the contrary). Those Michelin Pilot SX-GT sound enticing, but as I said, I would prefer all-season tires, and I don't think those Pilot SX-GT's are all-season. However, I did note Charagp's suggestion about Dunlop SP Sport 5000's. I checked them out at www.dunloptire.com and comparing the price to the Michelin Pilot XGT V4's, they seem much more reasonable. However, on the website, it says that the "rim width" for the tire is 6 inches...now, I wanna simply just use the 6.5 inch OEM wheels that came with my car. Does that mean that the Dunlop's won't work with my car unless I get new wheels with a rim width of 6 inches? Thanx a lot!

------------------
1995 Mercedes-Benz E420 (W124 - Black Pearl/Black)
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  #7  
Old 05-09-2000, 09:58 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
Doubt it, that is probably the rim they used to measure the tire. After reading a search of previous posts, it looks like for the 6-cylinder w124s, I would go 205/60/15 and for 400E I would go 215/60/15.

As for tires, I really don't know how the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 Symmetricals perform compared to the Asymmetrical. I know that both offer an "AA A" rating which means they have excelent wet weather characteristics.

Here is an eariler posts that I would read over quickly: 99'E320 TIRE SIZE QUESTION


------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)

[This message has been edited by Chiragp (edited 05-10-2000).]
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2000, 06:51 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 530
Spend the extra money and get the Michelin Pilot XGT V4. You won't be disappointed. It is a better tire than the Dunlop SP Sport 5000, but about twice the price. If you can afford it, go for it.

------------------
1997 Mercedes-Benz E420
(W210)
Michelin Pilot XGT Z4
P225/55ZR16
soon to be
Michelin Pilot HX MXM
235/50WR16

1997 Mercedes-Benz C280
(W202)
Michelin Pilot SX-GT
205/60VR15

1988 Mercedes-Benz 260E
(W124)
Michelin (Pilot HX) MXV3-A
195/65HR15
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2000, 07:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 530
Also, note that the 215/60/15 works VERY well on the V8 W124's, HOWEVER, only on the 7" rim (Sportline model). You can buy new rims if you so desire. Otherwise, stick with the 205/60/15. It works well.
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2000, 10:43 AM
Moderator and Tire God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,091
Now to set the record straight. The tire sizes that have been mentioned in this thread are not a problem for your car. The 215/60-15 will work fine with your factory wheel. The Michelin Pilot XGT will fit any wheel from a 5.5" width to a 8.5" and the OE wheel is 6.5". The "warpage" issue that was mentioned is a non-issue due to the overall diameter of the tire. The factory 195/65-15 is 25.0" and the 215/60-15 is 25.2" so, in theory, the latter will have more resistance to wheel warpage.
Thanks, Luke

------------------
Luke Pavlick
Performance Specialist (ASE Certified Master Tech)
The Tire Rack
(click banner at top of the page
to visit Tire Rack)
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2000, 12:07 PM
DuckMuck's Avatar
Feathered Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Posts: 804
Thanx a lot Luke and to you other guys...

I've decided to get the Michelin XGT V4's in 215/60VR15 to go on my OEM wheels. I think this is best, since my E420's back wheels go crazy everytime I'm a little liberal w/ the gas pedal after a light change. Maybe I'll upgrade my wheels to a larger size later on; but for now, I think it will do.

For those people who live in the Vancouver, British Columbia area, do any of you guys know of a good (and CHEAP) place to buy these tires...and a reliable place to install 'em??? I was simply goin' to go to the Mercedes dealership (probably in Richmond), but if you guys have a better suggestion, I would gladly give it a try. Thanx a lot!

------------------
1995 Mercedes-Benz E420 (W124 - Black Pearl/Black)
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2000, 12:49 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
I think you should be able to go to a tire store that is on TireRack's wholesale buyer's list and be able to purchase the tires from them for TireRack's published prices + S&H. It works out to be pretty cheap for me cause I goto the local NTB. Then I buy their Road Hazard plans on the tires and am set if one ever hits a pot hole too hard or something.

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2000, 01:15 PM
Moderator and Tire God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,091
I can have the tires shipped to an installer near you and would be happy to speak with you in order to place your order.
Thanks, Luke
800-428-8355 ext. 362
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2000, 06:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Southampton, NJ
Posts: 126
Luke, please tell us more about this program. Do these shops honor your prices, or do we just have them shipped there? Thanks.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2000, 06:39 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
Well there are 2 ways to do it:

1) Purchasing it yourself and then have them mailed to an installer of your choice that they recommend.

2) Goto a TireRack Affiliate who can pruchase the tire from TireRack and all you do is pay TireRack's Published Price plus Shipping and Handling.

Notice, either way you pay the same price, only benefit of doing it the second way is that if you have them purchased through a Tire Retailer (i.e. NTB since that is who I used) then you will be able to purchase different plans (road hazard plans, alignments specials, etc.) because you are still purchasing tires through them and can get special like an alignment for $29 with a set of 4 tires, etc. Its more complicated, and sometimes you run into idiot who don't understand, but I go strait to the boss and let him know what I plan on doing. He understands and I only deal with him so that there is no confusion.

Remember, I am the penny pincher. I save what I can That means I will get my wheels sooner for the ML



------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)
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