Is 6mm's enough ? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

drbrandini · #1 11-11-2003, 10:10 PM

My Front tires are wearing rapidly on the inside edges. I am currently running 16 inch wheels with a 41 mm offset and 205 55 size tires. I am considering buying some 16 inch wheels with a 35mm offset. Is this enough offset to make a difference? In another thread the majority came to the conclusion that the offset of my current wheel is just to much for my car when cupled with the H&R springs and bilstein sport shocks. I might note that I am still rubbing in the front under hard breaking after going to bump 3 pads in front.

#2 11-11-2003, 10:21 PM

I just removed a set of 16's with the 35mm offset from my 124 and put them on my wifes C230. I'm not sure what your trying to achieve by changing from a 41mm to 35mm but I do know that you don't want to go any less than 35. At least not in the front because it will even the tire up with the outter fender lip. No problems with rubbing the fender on the outter edge but it's right on the edge, so no lower than 35 and you'll be fine.

I do have to put a little plug in from where I bought my wheels if your in the market, go to www.wheelexchange.com and look around. I purchased 4 new Alutec DTM's for under $500, and that included lug bolts and new center caps. They are TUV approved and probably one of the best deals I've stumbled on in a while, well except for the Kumho's I just installed on my car. Now THOSE are a REAL DEAL!!

drbrandini · #3 11-11-2003, 10:47 PM

those are actually the wheel and the place I was gonna get them from.

The 41mm E430 wheels I have now stick out too much. The 35mm wheels will bring the wheel back in 6mm. Hopefully closing the gap that the alighnment couldn't. Sorry I don't know how to explain it very well but I'm sure you understand what I mean. Creating less leverage since the wheels are closer to the inside. I'm just hoping that this will solve my problem, I guess at this point I am running out of options short of putting the original suspension back on.

ksing44 · #4 11-12-2003, 06:00 AM

I think you are confused, ET35 will stick out farther than the ET41. Go to the Tirerack site @ http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/offset.htm to understand more about offset and how a larger number will actually pull the wheel in closer to suspension.

From what I have read, ET41 should be the optimal offset to fit the widest tires possible on a W124. ET41 should provide the maximum clearance, both at the fender lip and inside at the suspension. I have ET37 offset on 16" x 7.5" wheels with 205/55/16 tires and the tires are close to the edge of the fenders, but I have no rubbing. I also have Eibach springs and Bilstein HDs with 1-bump front pads and 3-bump rear pads. I only have about a 1-inch drop and I have read that the H&Rs provide a larger drop, so maybe it is all about being too low. Then again, a lot of guys have slammed cars and they don’t all complain about rubbing, even with 17" x 7.5" ET35 wheels.

Everything does not add up with what you are saying.

Does it rub on the inside or out at the fender lip? If it rubs inside at the suspension, the lower offset should help.

Is your car a lot lower than mine? See picture below.

drbrandini · #5 11-12-2003, 08:03 AM

I am trying to move the wheels in towards the shocks. From what I understand I need a lower offset. The 41mm extent 41mm from the center of the hub out to the fender the 35mm should shorten the distance by 6mm. Again, if I understand it correct. I am rubbing at the lower cladding and once in a blue moon at the top of the lip. Any suggestions here is a pic.

ksing44 · #6 11-12-2003, 09:44 AM

Your wheels really should fit if they are ET41. The lower offset of ET35 will move the wheel closer to the fenders, not closer to the shocks. I know it can be confusing, but look hard at the Tirerack site by using the link in my post above and you should understand.

The bigger offset number of ET41 will place the bolting surface farther from the center of the wheel, toward the curb and away from the shocks. If you imagine the bolting surface moving away from the shocks, then you can also imagine that you will then have to move the wheel in toward the shocks and away from the curb to make contact with the hub.

Perhaps if you think of it as the smaller the offset, even negative numbers, the deeper the dish of the wheel. If you have a deep dish, then the mounting surface is way inside the wheel and most of the wheel will project away from the hub. Deep dish wheels would stick way out on your Benz.

You need a higher offset, based on your symptoms, but they really should fit. They certainly should not rub on the outside. I might understand if it was rubbing inside, but something else must be going on with your car. Are you sure the wheels are ET41?

#7 11-12-2003, 09:44 AM

Illogical as it may seem to those of us who grew up reading _Hot Rod_ and _Rod and Custom_ in the '50s, when the words used to be used the opposite way, nowadays, at least for most vendors, "positive" offset moves the wheel inward, toward the shock absorber, not the fender lip, so if you want to get more clearance on the outside, while sacrificing some on the inside, you need to INCREASE the positive offset (ET) number.

Really, that's the way it is. I don't understand why, but that's the way it is.

drbrandini · #8 11-12-2003, 09:56 AM

So what are some suggestions.... From day one (more than a year ago) I have been told that the E430 wheels would fit great with no rubbing even with the H&R's and bilsteins but I have had nothing but rubbing since I mounted them. What should I do. Not to mention I am wearing tires up front like crazy. I originally had bump 2's up front and put on 3's, I have also replaced, for different reasons the lower ball joints, tie rods, sway bar bushings, the only things that haven't been changed are the A arm bushings. I just want to drive without rubbing and not wear out tires so fast. Ive been considering going back stock which I would rather not do. Thanks again,

ksing44 · #9 11-12-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fimum Fit
Illogical as it may seem to those of us who grew up reading _Hot Rod_ and _Rod and Custom_ in the '50s, when the words used to be used the opposite way, nowadays, at least for most vendors, "positive" offset moves the wheel inward, toward the shock absorber, not the fender lip, so if you want to get more clearance on the outside, while sacrificing some on the inside, you need to INCREASE the positive offset (ET) number.

Really, that's the way it is. I don't understand why, but that's the way it is.

I don't know about the old days, but it is explained if you look at the Tirerack site. The wheel makers must understand when they write the ET number on your wheel.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/offset.htm

#10 11-12-2003, 10:51 AM

[QUOTEI just want to drive without rubbing and not wear out tires so fast. Ive been considering going back stock which I would rather not do. Thanks again,

[/B][/QUOTE]

After reading this whole thread none of this makes sense. I can't imagine why your tires are sticking out too much and rubbing on your cladding with only a 41mm offset. You shouldn't be encountering a clearance problem until the offset goes lower than 35mm. Are you clear now on how the offset numbers work?

You said that you have a 205/55/16 tire on your wheels. That is a great size for that car and you most certainly shouldn't have any rubbing.

How about some pics??? Can you take some pics of where the wheel is in relation to the outter fender, perhaps some showing the wear your encountering and your suspension components? Maybe it will reveal something if we can see what your seeing.

Zeus · #11 11-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Brandon -

If you are going from an offset of 41mm to 35mm with the same rim diameter (16"), then you will be moving the wheels FURTHER OUT (away from the shock). If you want to bring the wheels "IN" (towards the shock), you will need a higher offset number - i.e. 45, 49 MM.

Chris

Luke@tirerack · #12 11-12-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fimum Fit
I don't understand why, but that's the way it is.

it's because we hotrodders from the old days used back spacing as our measurement of choice ... not offset

#13 11-12-2003, 01:34 PM

specifically regarding the offset between the center of the tire where it hits the ground and the center of the axis of the steering pivot points (steering radius offset, or "scrub radius"), then "positive" means that the tire is farther out than the steering axis, and "negative" (as in VW's "Skid Breaker" ad campaign), means that the center of the tire is closer to the center of the car than the point where the steering axis hits the road, doesn't it? Why this inconsistency?? It still seems to me that if we add to the effective tread width with a rim whose center is farther from the center of the car, that's an addition to a measurable distance, so it should be positive, and if we subtract from the tread width, it should be a negative factor. But maybe this is too logical for engineers.

And back in the '50s, I encountered the term "offset" and understood it long before I heard of "backspacing" (sometime in the '70s, at the earliest).

drbrandini · #14 11-12-2003, 02:13 PM

Quote:

After reading this whole thread none of this makes sense. I can't imagine why your tires are sticking out too much and rubbing on your cladding with only a 41mm offset. You shouldn't be encountering a clearance problem until the offset goes lower than 35mm. Are you clear now on how the offset numbers work?

You said that you have a 205/55/16 tire on your wheels. That is a great size for that car and you most certainly shouldn't have any rubbing.

How about some pics??? Can you take some pics of where the wheel is in relation to the outter fender, perhaps some showing the wear your encountering and your suspension components? Maybe it will reveal something if we can see what your seeing. [/B]

Dale,
Thanks for your quick responses
I agree none of it makes sense. I do understand how it works now, I just added the 6mm in the wrong direction. Maybe the wheels aren't my trouble, I'm not sure I just assumed that pulling the wheels in closer to the car would create less rolling resistance therefore not wear my tires out so quick. But I am not an expert on wheels and tires.

I will absolutely post some pics tonight. Again, I am wearing on the inside, the wheels are pretty flush with the fender.

thanks to all for the replies,

ksing44 · #15 11-12-2003, 03:23 PM

Too much negative camber can wear your tires on the inside, but if the wheels were angled way in at the top I would think there would be less chance for rubbing the fenders. Too much toe in can wear the outside of your tires, so I suppose too little toe could also wear the inside. Do you have the details for your alignment after the car was dropped?