What are best tires for 123 diesels? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BWatson · #1 12-18-2003, 05:56 PM

Dunlop, Michelin, Goodyear?.....

Also I have noticed that some older 123s have 195 70R 14 and some newer ones have 205 70R 14. Which is better?

Toblin · #2 12-18-2003, 06:04 PM

Cooper (sp)? Best bang for for the buck I say.

JHZR2 · #3 12-18-2003, 06:09 PM

Ive had great luck with dunlop sp sport a2
They are about $55 each from the tire rack. AA (thats right, double A) traction rated, A temperature. Never had any problem on snow covered roads (I dont go out if its over about 4 inches though, until its packed).

Have had great success with these on a toyota minivan, acura integra, and they are really popular with e30 bmkw 3 series owners.

40000 miles and the tires will still be good if your suspension is OK. If your suspension is bad, the soft compound of these tires may cuase funny wear. In that case you might want to consider (more expensive) goodyear aquatred 3's (have had great success with these as well in all sorts of weather), becuase of their hard tread compound.

The new BF goodrich traction T/A has a 60k mileage rating, AA/A ratings for traction/temp, and is similarly priced to the A2s. Ill be getting these for my BMW in the spring to try them.

But Id go with the Dunlops if I were in your place. I have twice now...

JMH

#4 12-18-2003, 06:39 PM

Michelins all the way. I have X-Ones on mine right now. And the rest of my family have Michelin Harmonies. We've had bad experience with Dunflops (as we've come to call them) in the past; two flats on the way home from the Orlando International Airport, this was years ago though in the 123 Wagon. We've never had any problems with the Michelins. The X-Ones were 102.88 each (size 195 70R 14, which I believe is the recommended size). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that putting oversize tires aren't good? Good Luck..

#5 12-18-2003, 06:41 PM

BWatson,

I worked four years at a tire center while in school and became pretty familiar with the pros and cons of various tires. (I also was driving a 1983 300D at the same time.)

I see you're from L.A. which means snow is probably not a common occurence. I believe the 195/70R-14 is the standard size, while a 205/70R-14 is a permitted optional size. The difference (technically) is that the 205 is 10 millimeters wider than the 195. (Although, I ran 205/70R-14 Michelins and they APPEARED significantly larger than the 195/70R-14. Which means tires vary by size according to manufacturer and the stated size is technical nomenclature....the actual size or appearance may actually be somewhat different.) Also, because the sidewall height is a percentage of the tire width, stepping up to a wider tire usually results in a slightly taller tire too.

Manufacturer vs. manufacturer. I saw tires from Goodyear, Dunlop, Pirelli, Michelin, Cooper, etc. come through our shop eithter as OEM or replacement equipment and developed some personal opinions based on the conversations I had with vehicle owners. Personally, I feel the Michelin/BFG tire group is the best made brand on the market. Michelins are expensive, but deals can be found if you shop around. Also, Michelins tend to be a noisy tire over expansion joints because of their construction. BFGoodrich makes tires on par with their sister company Michelin, and are less noisy. Prices are usually less also, and the Control T/A, Touring T/A, Radial T/A are all good 4-season choices.
Goodyear tires seemed to have the most quality control issues in my experience (especially when installed OEM.) As a replacement tire, Goodyears are still decent (although as I'm writing this I can't recall a Goodyear tire name to recommend.)
Cooper is a good bang for the buck. Low cost with very few quality control or defect issues. Cooper is often private labeled (meaning they manufacture the tire and Sears puts its Sears name on it...or any other large tire retailer. Although, Goodyear, Michelin, etc also sell as private label to large retailers. So ask who manufactures the tire if you're looking at a private label.)
Dunlops are more performance oriented in general, as are Perellis, so don't expect them to last the full length of the warranty. Very often they say, 50,000 mile warranty, but unless you drive just straight down asphalt with no starts and stops or cornering or gravel roads or concrete most likely they will last about 40,000. The compound must just be softer than most to give better grip.

Tire manufactures put a lot of research and time into testing their tires, so I would give more credit to what the manufacturer says in the brochure than a consumer reports article.

Just my 2 cents (times 100)!

dieseldiehard · #6 12-18-2003, 06:45 PM

I used to recommend Pirellis but that firm decided to discontinue the darned excellent 14 inch tires they made

I still use Pirelli P6000 (205-65-15 Vrated) tires on the 15 inch W126 wheels on my 300TDs.
Pirelli made really good tires, and although slightly softer than others I have used, they really stick wet or dry.
Handling is my main concern. I do NOT recommend Michelin due to their excessive pricing policy (they seem to jack it up every few months) and their MXV-tires are also quite noisy when driving over pavement cracks, due to a hard compound they use for long life.

Someone on this forum reported good results with Yokohama Avid or Parada tires (not sure what the differences are) - thats just what I wrote down. YMMV
Dieseldiehard
1971 220 (gas) 4-spd manual 104041
1979 300TD w/ ’85 turbo engine 289560
1983 300D 237490
1985 300TD 206150
1975 300D (looking for an engine)

bjcsc · #7 12-18-2003, 07:07 PM

I run Michelin Green-X 195/70R 14's on my 300CD and BF Goodrich Mud Terrain T/A 31 x 10.5's on my CJ7. I haven't been let down by a single tire, and I give that Jeep hell.

gsxr · #8 12-18-2003, 07:16 PM

I strongly recommend sticking with the stock size, usually 195/70/14 on most 123's with a 6.5 wheel. Going wider gives you a little straight-line advantage but sacrifices handling since the fatter tire will "swim" on the thinner wheel. The proper way to get a wider tires is to get a wider wheel too. A 205 tire should be on a 7.0 wheel, 215 or 225 on a 7.5, 235 on an 8.0, etc... just look at the factory sizes on later MB's. Fat tires on skinny wheels, IMNSHO, looks stupid.

With that said, I've heard a lot of good about X-Ones, long life, etc... but probably not all that great for performance use (I know, I know, 123 and "performance" shouldn't be in the same sentence). I've also heard good things about Kumho's tires, great bang for the buck there, I was planning on getting Kumho's next time for my 123.

dieseldiehard · #9 12-18-2003, 07:48 PM

I use a 7 inch wheel having the right offset (the flat face aka "15 spoke" wheels from a 560SEL , 420SEC, etc.) as they work great on W123 cars. Performance is still worth striving for in the 123 cars.
While on the subject of tires, a story comes to mind, regarding the first 300D (w123) I drove. It had Goodyear tires on it, and I almost decided that I never wanted one of these vehicles, because the car handled so poorly! Miserable actually! Michelins do handle well, I didn't mean to say they don't perform well but for the same price I can buy nearly twice as many Pirellis (or I could buy them when they were making and selliing them! (Grrrr. I hate that marketing decision!) Some Italian manager probably received a bonus for saving the firm millions of Lira for killing the product off because too many old Benz are getting crushed in Europe).
Of course now that the USD is getting weaker we all might be paying more for lots of things, including Benz parts! Oh dear! The Euro is down near 0.80 but about a year back it was over par, it went as high as $1.15 I believe for a short time. Any ecnonomists out there?
Dieseldiehard

dieseldiehard · #10 12-18-2003, 07:51 PM

Oh yes, gszr - do you want some Kuhmos, cheap? I have an almost new set on 14 inch steel rims from my 220. They don't meet my expectations for a good tire. They are cheap though!
Dieseldiehard

gsxr · #11 12-18-2003, 08:06 PM

Which model Kumho were they? The ones I'm referring to are the asymmetrical ones. Mike Nowack put a set on his '87 and he just loves them - a little noisy but they stick like glue, wet or dry, according to him...

rderton · #12 12-20-2003, 07:42 AM

I just put a set of Michelin HydroEdge's on my daughter 190. She has gone from "it's an ok car" to her own restoration project, she loves it now.

I took it out in the rain and could'nt get it to slip. I'll be getting some of these for my 123 when the time comes.

#13 12-20-2003, 09:27 AM

When selecting tires the most important thing to start with is what are you looking for from your tires?

Do you want a long lasting tire, do you want a short lived gumball, road gripping tire?

Secondly, ONLY BUY A TIRE THAT IS MADE IN A RADIALLY SECTIONED MOLD!

Many tires are still made in the old fashioned clam shell mold. This worked fine in the bias ply days, but does not allow for consistent belt placement for radial construction. Up until the last few years, Michelin was the only mfg that used this construction method. Now I have seen Continental, Pirelli, Yokohama and Kumho tires that are made in the sectioned mold. Not all of the tires from these mfg's are made in a sectioned mold so you have to look at the tire to know for sure.

A clam shell molded tire has a mold mark around the circumference of the tire in the center of the tread. Sectioned molding leaves mold marks across the tread and across the sidewalls like pieces of pie. Some tire makers clean up the flashing so well you can't tell.

If you want a forever tire, stay with standard passenger car tires in 75 series. These are the hard compound long lived tires. I have gotten as much as 90,000 miles from a set of these in 195 75 14. In buying, balancing and running tires for about 800,000 miles of 123 driving, I have found these impossible to beat and I've tried most everything.

If you want performance tires for a 123 car, it is my opinion, that your trying to make a race horse out of a pig. The 123 is a very nice driving car, but it is NOT a sports car, thus you don't need 70's or certainly not 65's or 60's. I won't argue that 70's were factory equipment, but if you want a smooth running, long lasting tire, stay with 75's and have them balanced dynamically with weights both inboard and outboard.

Good luck and Merry Christmas,

cwa · #14 12-20-2003, 10:37 AM

I have been thinking about using the Michelin Pilot Alpin on my '87 300TD.

Anyone have any comments about this tire?

Currently using the Michelin MXV - Energy. Both of these are on the stock 15 X 6.5 rims in 195/65HR15 size.

rwthomas1 · #15 12-20-2003, 10:47 AM

I found a set of Michelin X-One 205/70-14's used, very lightly, for $200. Best money I have spent so far. Treadwear rating is 700! Should wear like iron. Very quiet, good grip and handling in the wet and dry. I would pay for these new if I had to. Incidentally, Michelin specifically states the 205 section is an viable alternative/upgrade to the 195. They should know, they make the tires...... The 205's look better on the car as they are just slightly wider/taller than 195's. Gets away from thatR wide open wheelwell/skinny tire effect. RT