No, they should still be good, barring a defective mount.

May just need some running time to settle down. If the rough idle persists, though, I'd search out the cause. These things really purr if in good shape, and a blown head gasket won't do any damage other than wasting quite a bit of oil.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

If they're that recent, it is highly unlikely they're bad. The typical life span is, IMO, at least 5 years and/or 50kmi (usually longer). Next item to check is the electronic idle control (ELR). Find the round black trim plug somewhere near the brake booster, numbered 1-7. With the engine running, pull it outward, turn to #1, push it back in - the idle speed should slow down (~500rpm). Pull out, turn to #7, push in - idle speed should increase noticeably (~750rpm). If so, the ELR is working fine. If there is no change between numbers, the ELR isn't working, and your idle speed is too low. It should be ~650rpm or so (usually #4 or #5 on the dial).

Another remote possibility is a worn rear engine (tranny) mount, or injectors that are not well matched for opening pressures. There is no rack damper to fiddle with on the 603 engine, so forget that.

I'm betting on injectors as the cause of the loud idle. I would like to send them to Becker Diesel, as Dave suggested. I've never pulled injectors, how difficult a job is it? I have the 126 CD.

I did a 300 mile run to the Bay Area this weekend, and it seems to have quieted a little. Doing a 600+ mile run to San Luis Obispo this coming weekend, and plan on Diesel Purging before the trip.

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Chris

'04 ML500 - 53k, Inspiration Edition, Desert Silver
'11 Audi A4 Avant - Brilliant Black
'87 300SDL sold
'99 C280 Sport sold
'85 190E 2.3 sold

Pulling injectors is a simple job, you will need a torque wrench with a 27mm deep socket, and 6 heat shields. I don't remember the torque spec it was something around 100ft pounds I think?

Oh and a crossover gasket because that will have to come out also, while your doing that why don't you block off your egr? You have a nice new head I wouldn't want to gum it up with egr tar.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Where can I find this "head #" 14. My wife's car is a 300TD (87). Though this thread is 4 pages long, there was no mention of what signs were ther that the head was cracked. I have some concern about my wife's TD because there appears to be oil spots in the coolant tank. There is no evidence of coolant on the dipstick and no smoke out the back end and the temp only hits 90 with A/C on running down the highway. Generally what would one be looking at money wise.

__________________
1999 MB SL500 (110,000 mi)
2004 Volvo V70 2.5T (220,000 mi)
2014 Tesla Model S 85 (136,000 mi)
MBCA member

Rick,

You can find the casting number of the head on the driver's side between injectors 2 and 3, as the second to last series of numbers. In the morning, after the engine has completely cooled, squeeze the upper radiator hose. If it is soft and pliable, you probably have a bad head gasket and not a cracked head. If it is rock hard you likely have a cracked head . A brand new head with the work done at an indy will be ~$2500-3k. A new head gasket will be ~$1500, which seems high, but it's mostly labor to pull the head. If you believe it's just a head gasket, it is still EXTREMELY important to have the head sent to a reputable machine shop to have it pressure tested for small cracks..

__________________
Chris

'04 ML500 - 53k, Inspiration Edition, Desert Silver
'11 Audi A4 Avant - Brilliant Black
'87 300SDL sold
'99 C280 Sport sold
'85 190E 2.3 sold

Chris is right. If you have oil in the coolant, but no high pressure when cold (assuming a tight cooling system and good cap), you might just need a gasket. If you want to attempt a DIY gasket replacement, figure about $500 in parts and special tools, another couple hundred for the machine shop to pressure test and replace the valve seals, and about 20-30 hours labor (assuming it's your first time). A pro shop should be able to do the job in 10-15 hours, assuming they've done a few 603's before. If you need a new head, add $800-$1000 for a used one, or $1600-$2000 for a new one, to the previous parts/labor cost.

The good news is after it's all done with a new style head, it should never crack!

My new #22 head was $1,850, but my indy gave me 10% off everything, so it came to ~$1,675.

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Chris

'04 ML500 - 53k, Inspiration Edition, Desert Silver
'11 Audi A4 Avant - Brilliant Black
'87 300SDL sold
'99 C280 Sport sold
'85 190E 2.3 sold

Hey folks.

I recently found you discussion, and it's been a big help.

Bought my first MB (300SDL) 3 years ago and couldn't be happier. Well, it has seemed to run a bit hot, and lost fluid slowly and steadily to space but ALLDATA MB tech bullitens said "No worries". Great car, great condition, great milage :p .

Finally found the GSXR and Goldenbear discussions a few days ago .

Has hard hoses in the morning and a -14 head .

Question: What might I find if I pull the head? Eroded cylinder walls and other nasty stuff?

Quick look says a rebuilt 603 is around $7k, plus install probably takes me to $10. Does that track?

GSXR put a list together showing $3k for a head. (OK) How much was DIY?

Anyone know anything of the guys in England selling rebuilt 603 heads for 660 (pounds)?

Thanks again folks.

If you are not "burning" coolant, there should be no corrosion or pitting problems. Otherwise you won't know until the head comes off. As long as the block surface is OK at the top of the liners, you're golden. No need for a new engine, just a new (or good used #17+) head. As a DIY project, a very rough estimate is $500 in parts & tools, plus the cost of a head ($900 used, $1800 new), plus assorted machine shop work (swapping valves and/or seals, ~$200). And of course about 20 hours of labor!

I have not heard of ANYONE selling rebuilt 603 heads, and I wouldn't want one unless it's #17+. The cost is rather high at $1200 USD plus another $100-$150 shipping...


HTH,

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

I just looked at the casting number it is indeed a 14. Now, just so that I know, what would cause the hose to be rock hard vs soft? Do you mean that a bad gasket would allow pressure to bleed off, hence the pliable hose. Where as a cracked head is allowing oil to mix but is in a location that doesn't effect the coolant pressure? Shouldn't I be seeing evidence of water/coolant on the dipstick?

__________________
1999 MB SL500 (110,000 mi)
2004 Volvo V70 2.5T (220,000 mi)
2014 Tesla Model S 85 (136,000 mi)
MBCA member

No - soft hose good, hard hose bad.

A bad gasket usually manifests itself as mixed liquids - oil in coolant, most of the time. Or if you get the blowout into the timing chain cavity you can get blue smoke & high oil consumption due to the oil passage between the cavity and cyl #1 (goldenbear had this last month on his SDL - along with a cracked head.)

The typical head crack is either between valve seats, or between a valve and the prechamber hole. It doesn't usually allow liquids to mix, or liquid into the cylinder. What happens is, under high load, combustion pressure pushes into the cooling system. This makes the cooling system have abnormally high pressure, usually close to the rating of the radiator cap (1.2-1.4 bar), even at "low" temps like 85-95C. When the engine cools off, there is still high pressure in the system - making the upper hose so tight you can't squeeze it. Normally, the system returns to zero pressure (or darn close to zero) as it cools. My engine (with the new head) routinely has slight *vacuum* in the system, showing as a lightly 'flattened' upper radiator hose.

You can drive the car for a while (maybe months or years) with the pressure syndrome, as long as no liquids are mixing, engine temps are reasonably normal (105C and below), AND you are not losing ANY coolant. When you start mixing liquids, losing coolant, and/or overheating for no reason, it's time to yank the head.

I found a 603 engine that may have a good head and will look at it tomorrow,

Wow it sure seems like a lot of these head problems are showing up recently. Has anybody put together any kind of statistics on mileage, coolant use, etc. with these head problems? From looking at the records of my car, it had its first head crack at around 150,000 at which time the service receipt shows it getting a new head. It turns out it either just had the old head welded, or had a welded head put on. Then, I just put another head on at 286,000. Is there a common thread of failures around 150,000 miles?

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Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein

No, it is not usually related to miles. It seems related to high temps. If the car ever gets overheated, or maybe just really hot for long periods, this seems to stress the weak areas in the old heads. The trap oxidizer has been blamed for a lot of the problem, as most of these cars had the trap installed for the first 10 years (!) of their life. Allegedly the few 1986 SDL's without traps have far fewer head failures than the models that had traps. The crack won't necessarily appear right after an overheating episode, on my car the symptoms appeared a couple of *years* later...!

So far, the failure rate of the newer heads (#17+) has been miniscule (as in, I haven't heard of one cracking yet.)

:p