Why does NJ DOT ban idling Diesel >3mins. at 24 hr convenience stores?

[Carrameow]

Why does NJ DOT ban idling Diesel >3mins. at convenience stores? Lately I have seen these Notices at the cash registers of every Wawa I stop at for coffee." YOU CAN BE FINED UP TO $3000 FOR IiDLING A DIESEL FOR MORE THAN 3 MINUTES..." I am not disagreeing or protesting this. I am simply trying to educate myself. Do our diesel produce high concentrates of S04 at prolonged idle? Are diesels environmentally unsound at prolonged idling because we run "cooler" than gas engines and don't combust fully at idle? I just want to be able to prepare myself the next time someone asks me..

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Carrameow

Why does NJ DOT ban idling Diesel >3mins. at convenience stores? Lately I have seen these Notices at the cash registers of every Wawa I stop at for coffee." YOU CAN BE FINED UP TO $3000 FOR IiDLING A DIESEL FOR MORE THAN 3 MINUTES..." I am not disagreeing or protesting this. I am simply trying to educate myself. Do our diesel produce high concentrates of S04 at prolonged idle? Are diesels environmentally unsound at prolonged idling because we run "cooler" than gas engines and don't combust fully at idle? I just want to be able to prepare myself the next time someone asks me..

I don't know if this will adequately answer your question, but you might start with this page from the New Jersey DEP. Note that there are links in the upper right hand corner of that page leading to further information. From one of the pages linked:

Why is DEP targeting idling vehicles?

The idling of diesel-powered vehicles produces a wide variety of air pollutants, including particulates, nitrogen oxides, volatile organic compounds, formaldehyde and other toxic air pollutants. Some of these air pollutants are known carcinogens. Particulate matter can cause health problems ranging from difficulty in breathing to heart attacks. While the DEP has responded to citizen complaints about idling vehicles for many years now, it is especially important to reduce idling during the warmer months when poor air quality impacts vulnerable parts of the population, such as children, the elderly and people with respiratory or coronary disease. In fact, the number of premature deaths in New Jersey each year caused by exposure to particulates exceeds the number of deaths from homicides and motor vehicle accidents.

In addition to the environmental risks, idling vehicles unnecessarily consume fuel and increase long-term engine maintenance costs. Idling is also an occupational hazard as it exposes drivers to dangerous levels of particulates and other toxins.

(I found this by searching on "New Jersey" + idling + diesel using Google.)


-- eskimo

geee's glad I don't live in NJ. what if... there's a long line? the clerk is new? what if I've been towing my trailer at 70, it likes to cool down first. what if I've been cruzn the benz at 80, it also likes to cool down. sounds like the nj goverments needs more to do.

[oldnavy]

Originally Posted by Diablo-Diesel

geee's glad I don't live in NJ. what if... there's a long line? the clerk is new? what if I've been towing my trailer at 70, it likes to cool down first. what if I've been cruzn the benz at 80, it also likes to cool down. sounds like the nj goverments needs more to do.

Three minutes sould be plenty of time to cool things down, but you could just slow down prior to pulling into a parking area.

I think you're making mountian out of mole hill. :p Speaking of mole's, one of the neighborhood cat's has left one out front on the driveway. Nice kitty, kitty.

[autozen]

Although I'm not in the trucking industry, I've read about this new movement. N.J. isn't alone. Research studies have shown that idling big rigs pruduce huge amounts of polutants and waste fuel. Stopping for 5 minutes isn't the big issue. The biggest problem is idling for several hours which is done to keep refrigeration units going and provide electricity to the sleeper cabs for driver comfort. What is coming down the pike is rest stops with power stations to handle these needs. You plug in and pay so much an hour. As far as cooling down the engine goes, professional drivers take their foot out of it several miles before their destination. this gives the oil time to cool down so it doesn't coke around the turbo bearing.

Peter

[phantoms]

Not totally unrelated, but here in Savannah and surrounding cities it's been illegal to leave a vehicle running unattended for quite some time. I remember a friend getting a ticket about 15 years ago for leaving his car running while he ran in a convenience store.

[Tirebiter]

So far I have only seen laws or proposed laws that deal with commercial diesel rigs concerning their idle time. I think that many truck stops will offer power outlets soon. The cost of putting power outlets in rest areas may be a different story.

Years ago, during a cold December in Dallas, I fired up my old Harley at the curb and let it idle to warm up. I was fastening my coat and putting on my helmet when a cop pulled up and issued me a ticket for a running vehicle that was "unattended". I pleaded not guilty because I was less than six feet away from it. The judge didn't see it my way and fined me $100 plus $45 for "costs" and an extra $100 for remarking that the cop was a chicken s**t.

[autozen]

Tirebiter,
In my opinion you are using an out dated term. Cop comes from old England where they used to cop people off the streets. We are in the 21st century where local governments have established voracious appetites for spending tax payer money. I now refer to them as RGs. I'll make comments to friends about the RGs watcing for speeders on a certain highway, etc. RG stands for REVENUE GENERATORS. Used to be years ago a judge would listen to a plea such as yours and rule accordingly. Those days are gone my friend. Everyone is guilty and pays the fine now. We still go through the ritual, because of some silly point in the constitution about getting a day in court or something like that, but it is really a waste of everyone's time,

Peter.

[Tirebiter]

"Cops" was the most polite term I could think of at the time and decorum prevents my normal descriptive syntax. I work in a closed door, high end shop where the owner will not accept an RG as a client. All our clients must be referred by other clients or shops.

I do agree with you that revenue generation is now their prime motive instead of safety issues. Ticket mills are everywhere and their revenue is counted on for the future city budget.

The only reason I disagree with you on the days being gone when a judge would listen to a not guilty plea is from my own first hand experiences. I am probably best described as a "vexatious litigant", and damned proud of it. There is almost always a remedy that can be sought even in the "Marcupial" , read that Kangaroo, courts.

My best example: I took a writer for Sports Car International on a high speed run in one of our modified Porsches. We went 217 MPH on the 210 West Freeway between Sunland and Sylmar California. We only got 211 on the Golden State freeway by Magic Mountain in Valencia. He wrote about it and used my name as the driver and the bulk of the article was about my shop, PorschaSports because we built "street rockets" (street driven cars that exceed 200 Mph).
Someone at the California DMV read about it and my driver's licence was "cancelled". Not suspended or revolked, that takes a court hearing; it was cancelled because "the DMV believes that a serious safety violation has ocurred" and the licence holder must appear in a DMV Safety Officer hearing.
So I appeared with a lawyer and the DMV wanted me to sign a statement promising never to do that again before they would renew my DL. My lawyer advised me to sign it and get my licence. That would have put me in the same catagory as people who were convicted of vehicular manslaughter, multiple DUIs, drug violations, and "endangers" of the public safety. Assigned risk insurance for the rest of your life. Not a chance.
As briefly as possible:
My Complaint was based on the fact that I was being denied my right to the privilage of driving based on hearsay and without due process. I filed a Wit of Mandamus to force the DMV to contract with me for a DL. It was denied when the court ruled that "due process" was within the DMV policy applied in my case.
For the next seven years I held no California DL and I refused to register my vehicles due to the fact that insurance cannot be given to someone without a valid DL. A conundrum.
A side benefit of this situation was that a person without a DL has no DMV file
Therefore there is no place for citations to be filed against the alleged violator.
I took it to the Federal District court claiming the DMV had no ad personum jurisdiction over me since they refused my driving rights without due process.
Hearsay evidence is always disallowed. I prevailed but I could not have afforded the lawyer fees had I not been in pro per.
The DMV sent a new licence, with no photo necessary. My DMV record now reflects no violations, ever.

Maybe we should start a thread on our encounters with the RGs, eh?

"The best place to find a helping hand is by looking at the end of your own arm."

[autozen]

Tirebiter,
I salute you, and specially since you were able to do it in pro per. I wish we could muster the internet power to challenge the insurance issue. We are being screwed by having to show insurance on each car. Since our California State legislature is the finest money can buy, we are forced to pay insurance on each car we own when we can only drive one car at a time. I believe it would be more equitible if we could buy a blanket policy to cover any vehicle we drive based on age, driving record, address, miles driven, and maximum value of vehicle. This will never happen while people like George Miller are tied to people like Galo wines. I call him George, because he serves me. The title of congressman should be reserved for folks he deals with in an official capacity and not for the folks he has SWORN TO SERVE. They wanted George Washington to be a king, but he refused. I know that some people on this forum think I'm a heretic or something, but I'm telling you we are loosing our freedom to sound bytes. The American tax payer lost everything in the 1986 tax code overhaul. We lost almost all deductions. We got down to how much did you make? Send it in. Not everyone knows that there were a handfull of wealthy Americans excluded from the code. I sure hope my computer doesn't get confiscated, because I'm making waves.

Peter

[Hatterasguy]

Remember the rich are never taxed, the middle class always gets the burden. Income tax is a perfect example of this, it doesn't pay to be a high income earner anymore.


btw I will idle my car on my property as long as a please, the RG's can shove it.

[turbodiesel]

Never stopped me. I always leave my cars run whenever I am going to be stopped only a few minutes.

[WannaWagon]

Diesel idling limits are targeted at commercial vehicles. Plenty of truckers are in the habit of idling their trucks, large or small, whenever they stop. The combined emissions are significant. California just passed an idling restriction and figured it would prevent several thousand tons of exhaust emmissions annually, along with many millions of dollars in lost fuel. Truckers supported the rule, because it saves them money and repair costs in the long run.

[autozen]

I can't believe this thread isn't in the open discussion forum where the the intelligent folks hang out instead of here with us dumb diesel guys. Oh well, I guess we'll have to deal with it. It's actually kinda nice not to have to read the one and only line of Latin that each of them knows. Heh, heh, heh.

Peter

[FrankM]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Remember the rich are never taxed, the middle class always gets the burden. Income tax is a perfect example of this, it doesn't pay to be a high income earner anymore..

why not if "the rich are never taxed" is true??