Folks,

I have a line on a 1977 300D from a friend. The car has about 155K on it and from the pictures he sent me, it is in really good shape.

I'm going to look at it this weekend but I want to ask here if there is anything particular I should look for. My friend said the car had a little bit of rust but from the pictures I could not see it.

I'm pretty sure 1977 was the first year for the W123 body style wasn't it? Any problems with that aspect of it. Also, since it is a non-turbo 300D I'm wondering a bit about performance. Eventually my 15 year old will be driving this and I want to make sure it has enough power to keep him out of trouble, but not too much to get him in trouble

Anyway, besides rust, and service/maintenance history, is there anything particular I need to look out for. The guy wants around $2500 for the car. If it is in decent shape, do you think that is a fair price to pay?

Many Thanks,

Glenn

Do you now or have you ever owned a diesel car? Are you gifted mechanically?

__________________
Tom Engel
***********
83 240 230K Manual (8/2003)
83 300D 265K (3/2004)
Just a Driver!

Yep, Currently own a VW diesel, and have owned a couple diesels in the past (pickup trucks) SoI do know a little bit about Diesels, but this will be my first Benz. As for mechanically inclined. I totally re-built from the ground up, two mis 60's Chevy's, so I know my way around a tool box a bit

Rust is the main thing. Inspect the underbody very good as it acts as your frame. I had to rebuild the floorboards and surrounding areas on my daughters 240D. Since then that's the first thing I look at on a car before considering purchasing it.

For $2500, you might want to shop around. Get a 81-85 W123 or W126 turbo diesel.

__________________
Shane83SD

I agree on the rust. If you have any suspisions check under the battery. The battery can cause holes in the cabin and fender well if it is unattended. And believe me you don't want to do sheet metal in that area. The car should be relatively smooth running and quiet for that price.

I think what the previous post is suggesting is that the 300 D non turbo will be very slow by any gasoline car standard.

__________________
Tom Engel
***********
83 240 230K Manual (8/2003)
83 300D 265K (3/2004)
Just a Driver!

My first Benz was a '78 300D. It was a great car but of course had its share of problems. The asking price for the '77 is very high unless everything is working as it should, there are maintenance records to show what's been done to make everything work as it should and as others have said, it should be totally rust free.

I believe I would keep looking for the previously mentioned 81-85 models. Go for a manual shift 240D for simplicity and reliability. Mine is right about par with older 300D's on performance and it doesn't have the ACC problems to deal with. As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of selling the 240D if you're interested. Anyway, $2,500 will buy a pretty nice old Benz if you're savvy.

my.02

__________________
Rick
Avid Benz watcher

Previously owned 126's: 2 1981 300SD's, 1987 300SDL, 1991 350SDL,
Previously owned 123's: 1978 300D, 1983 240D, 1985 300D
Previously owned 124: 1994 320TE

Currently:
2004 Toyota Sequoia SR5 206k
2010 Ford Edge 122k
Always looking for the next MB diesel!

I just finished buying a diesel Mercedes, so I may have some useful ideas for you.

The main advice is usually to check for good service records -- if the car has had one owner, who was zealous about changing the oil (and other fluids!) when needed, performing other routine maintenance on schedule and fixing little problems as they came up, you will probably start out in pretty good shape.

You can also tell a certain amount from trying the car out and poking around in the engine compartment. You can expect a little bit of white smoke when you first start the car, but it should clear out quickly. Lots of dark smoke is bad. The transmission should switch gears smoothly. It seemed to me that the engine would work up to a higher speed than I expected before the transmission decided to change gears, but I think that's normal. What you don't want is for the transmission to feel like it's gone into neutral in the middle of a gear shift, with the engine revving like crazy and not much happening. There may be an easy adjustment for that (or you may just need more fluid), but it's hard to be sure.

The coolant in the radiator should be sort of jewel-hued, and not rusty. Many people here say you want to see the orange color of genuine Mercedes coolant. The transmission fluid should also be bright red and translucent, not brownish-red or burnt-smelling. You want minimal "blow-by" from the engine, which (I think) indicates poor seals by the piston rings. The easiest way to check for blow-by is to open the oil filler cap while the engine is hot and running. A little smoke coming out is OK, but chugging puffs of smoke ("like a locomotive") are a bad sign (usually correlated with lots of smoke from the exhaust, in my experience). It's hard to tell much by the color of the engine oil; it picks up a lot of soot under normal operation. But lighter, clearer colors are probably a little better than dark, opaque black.

Also, look around the body for signs of a major accident. The standard story is that cars that have been mangled will generally give you more trouble later. Look for a mottled appearance in the paintwork on any of the panels, or oversprayed paint on the windows. Especially, look from front to back along each side of the body, to make sure that the frame is very straight. The title history for the vehicle ID number (VIN) should also tell you if the car has been in a major accident. Ask the seller for the VIN and look it up on carfax.com before you commit. Also watch out for rust if you're in an area prone to that, because it can be hard to fight and gradually eat away the outer panels.

I think you're unlikely to find a car with working A/C, and if you need that, I don't know a surefire way to tell whether you're in for an expensive or easy repair. I think the most common problems are a seized compressor and leaked refrigerant. If the car blows cooled (but not cold) air, then I would guess it's just a refrigerant problem, which should be relatively minor. I've also heard that if the belt is disconnected from the compressor, that usually means the compressor is bad, which is a more expensive problem (the compressor is the pully furthest down and to the right (driver's side), as you stand in front of the car.

There are more detailed checklists at these two sites, which I found helpful: http://mbdieseldiy.tripod.com/dog.htm http://www.samarins.com/check/checklist.html

There's another test for blow-by here, although people seem to debate its usefulness: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/diesel_mercedes/message/6439

Generally, the engine and transmission on these cars are supposed to be reliable for hundreds of thousands of miles if well cared for. The rest is pretty solid too, and is reasonably simple and cheap to fix, if you're willing to put some time into it now and then.

About the price: Below is the price formula that I used as I was shopping around in the Bay Area this summer. This represents a combination of what I thought the cars would be worth to me, balanced against the lowest prices I realistically hoped to find. You would probably have to wait a few weeks for something to pop up at these prices, and then go after it right away. The Bay Area has a high cost of living, but also seems to have an exceptional number of these cars available, so I don't know whether prices would be higher or lower in other areas. (www.craigslist.org is a great place to browse; search for diesel, deisel, 300d, "300 d")

Basic Car: 1977-1981 300D, minimal blow-by, humdrum color, <280K miles: $1000

Other Factors:
turbocharged (1981-84 models) add +$300 to value
<180K miles: +$300
working A/C: +$200
not beige: +$100
shiny paint: +$100
good tires: +$100
poor interior: subtract $150
non-working windows, sunroof: subtract $150
burning lots of oil (say, 1 qt/500 miles): subtract $500 or more (basically a no-go)

I hope this helps. Good luck with your search (if you're still looking)!

Matthias