Off Topic: Volvo diesels? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

wolf_walker · #1 09-09-2004, 06:57 AM

Any experience/opinion/info on Volvo diesels? I've heard of oiling issues, but not much else. And there a VW diesel with a couple extra cylinders.

JimmyL · #2 09-09-2004, 07:05 AM

I was warned away from one by folks from a Volvo message board. They said the best use of a diesel Volvo is to use the car for a V-8 conversion due to beefed up suspension. They said $500 bucks was the most any would offer for one, and that would be if it ran OK. The one I drove had a great body, 5 speed, and smoked like a coal-burning freight train. 6 cyl VW diesel. Really 'sounded' more like a diesel than our MB's.
Don't know any of the technical specifics. Others will help you there.
Jimmy

Chris Blanchard · #3 09-09-2004, 08:19 AM

I've owned a fair number of Volvos (6 over the years) and am also a diesel-nut, so I once asked my Volvo mechanic about the diesels. His opinion of them was quite low and refused to work on them unless the customer had been with him for a long time. Actually, he used more flavorful language than that, but I digress.

He now gives me double grief about having defected to MBs _and_ diesels, but he will do my AC work when I ask. (My wife's Volvo is serviced by him).
He knows the MB diesels are vastly superior than the junk that Volvo used, but he likes to tease me.

Given the lengendary durability of diesels in general, you sure don't see many of the old Volvo 240 Diesels or the 740 Turbodiesels around any more, even though they haven't been made in almost 20 years. MB diesels of that vintage outnumber them at least 50:1 around here.

There's a reason for that: the MB diesels were built right, Volvo got it wrong.
Other than their diesels, Volvo makes a decent car (well, the 4-cyl B230F/T
engines were nice - don't get me started on the PRV6).

djugurba · #4 09-09-2004, 10:10 AM

volvo's '80-'84 d24 engine was essentially a 4 cyl volkswagen diesel with two additional cyls cobbled on for power. It was robust enough for the task of hauling the heavy swede around, but some tragic flaws killed most of these cars before their time.
1. Volvo shipped the cars with a marketing campaign that highlighted the lower maintenance requirements of the diesel engine... and suggested 6,000 mile oil change intervals. Dutifully, most owners followed the suggestions.... to the detrement of the diesel...
2. The design of the engine required the car to achieve operating temperature for piston cooling to properly occur. The oil needs to flow/cascade in order for this to take place, and this does not happen sufficiently on short trip driving. For big trucks, it's ok, because of the long duty cycle, but it caused some issues, especially on the extra two cyls, in this engine.

Now, these things added up to making the engines appear unreliable. They do not need to be- if maintained properly. I'd sooner buy a high-mileage volvo diesel than a really low mile creampuff because you can be pretty sure that the high mileage one has been maintained to make it this far... Highway driving, they are ideal. Round town, great... but not a good 'grandpa's car' for back/forth to bingo. If not brought to operating temp, they don't last long.

There is a guy on www.brickboard.com named Robert Ludwig or something close to that. He's the resident diesel brick guru, and I'm sure would be helpful with more specific questions. He likes to look through junkyards for diesel volvos, run a can of diesel purge through them, adjust the valves, and drive them home for $cheap!

cheers,
Kevin

TwitchKitty · #5 09-09-2004, 12:20 PM

Thought about buying one in the past and read up on them. Cylinder wear and ring sealing are issues after 100-120K miles. Rebuild is not cost effective.

Pete Burton · #6 09-09-2004, 12:34 PM

several years ago when I decided I wanted a diesel vehicle to replace my Saab, I considered both Volvo and Mercedes. I went to a local indy who specialized in Volvos, as a friend had recommended the guy as honest and straightforward. I went to his place and started looking over the cars, looking of course for a diesel. When he came over, I asked if he had any diesels. He said "why do you want one of those?" I told him about my search for a safe older diesel, and he motioned to come around the back of the shop. He pointed to a PILE of about half a dozen diesel motors and said "take your pick, they're not worth nothing" He recommended I forget about a Volvo diesel. Either get a Volvo gasser or get a Mercedes diesel. You can guess the rest

Mr. FancyPants · #7 09-09-2004, 01:37 PM

I've got one, an opinion that is, JUNK!

My brother is a Volvo specialist, now more than 35 years. He has experianced many Volvo diesels from the early 80's and these engine according to him are probably the worst diesels out there and begin to die after 100K. Many people had trouble with them and if they were any good, you'd still see them around today but you dont hardly! The few surviving are a miracle!

diesel don · #8 09-09-2004, 01:38 PM

Having owned a 240 Volvo diesel, I completely agree with the flavor of this thread. I drove it nine years from 155k to 277k.

BAD:
Dog slow
Smoked like a grill with cheap hamburgers

GOOD:
Virtually no maintainence other than changing oil
I didn't even know about the concept of adjusting valves
I loved the machine but not the engine

jcyuhn · #9 09-09-2004, 02:46 PM

Every time I've seen a Volvo diesel on the road - which isn't all that many, mind you - it was laying down a smoke screen like a destroyer going into battle.

So Don, you say you like those 123 diesels, huh?

How do they hold up against Michigan salt winters? And why does Dave get two cars and everybody else only one?

- JimY

wolf_walker · #10 09-09-2004, 06:17 PM

Thanks's guys. I suspected most of this from the simple fact that I don't think I've ever seen one still on the road. It was just a thought. Perhaps a turbo gasser 240 wagon... Tired of hauling stuff in the Mercedes..

djugurba · #11 09-09-2004, 06:20 PM

240 wagons are great cars, last forever. I've had 3 over the years. Turbos tend to be less long-living, and you must remember to 'warm down' the turbo or you'll toast it. Depending on the year, there are upgrades and issues with the 240s, one annoying one being a deteriorating wiring harness that causes lots of problems until replaced. stay away from a rusty volvo too... check the rear sill especially- under the chrome trim is notorious, and can lead to decreased structural integrity= bad in a crash...
love those bricks!
K

#12 09-09-2004, 07:32 PM

At my work shop, we have two 240 Volvo Diesel Wagons. I've slaved countless hours on the 92K mile one. It had an aux fuel pump poorly wired to the IP, no matter my efforts it would do nothing.

Other than that, both have very nice bodies. They would be perfect for the V8 conversion.

RLD · #13 09-10-2004, 01:37 AM

I have a couple of them and like to tinker with more. There is absoloutly nothing wrong with the Volvo/vw diesel engine. The big problem with them is poor maintnence , riunning extended , factory recommended oil change intervals of 7000 miles , only changing the filter every other change. This isn't a big problem in europe with beter quality standard fuels and lubricants, but in the US is spells stuck rings. The good part is that this usually doesn't occour until somewhere betwen 180,000-250,000 miles when they usually get hauled off for junk from low compression. Many times this can be simply cleaned out with a quality cleaner like Auto rx ( that stuff is amazing on stuck rings ).If the rings are kept clean to begin with , the'll usually go around 275-300,000 miles before the'll need a head gasket, then near that again before rebuild.
In Europe, there are a bunch of those things in the serious high milage range.

Also Many of them get sent to the boneyard because they won't start eny more, and the only thing wrong with them is that the old original starter isn't cranking fast enough anymore ( this isn't in any of the troubleshooting manuals, I had to figure this one out the hard way )

The other , and biggest killer of Volvo diesels , is stupid american mechanics, who think that they can get away with doing things like timing belts on them without the proper tools and manuals ( I've got two of them that way after reputable foriegn car mechanics in dirtwater got through with them and they wouldn't run right any more )They are extreamly simple engines, but are very unforgiving of not following directions to the letter ( something american mechanics can't seem to grasp...i.e.' Bubba taught me this way and , by golly, that's how I'm gonna do it')

When properly tuned they are not dogs. I had a Volvo 240 diesel ( non turbo ) that would outrun my wifes Volvo 240 gas burner getting on the freeway, Pass a Mercedes 300 TD on a long pull and would pulll a 1500 lb trailer effortlessly.
Those engines were used in mid sized dilevery trucks in Europe and the turbo models were the diesel option used in Pinzgauers ( they currently use the newer 5 cyl vw /audi diesel )

Downside is finding one in decent shape. Depending on where you are that can be close to impossible ( this is why I ended up with a 300SD, I was looking for a Volvo 740turbo diesel with an automatic, and there just arent any in middle america, they were all too far to go and retrieve so I settled for the 300sd ), and to maintain it , you either need to buy about $500 in special tools and manuals ( about what you'd pay for the car in most cases ) or have a liberal minded VW diesel mechanic nearby ( not all of them will fool with the Volvo version although there are very few diferences )

Many people do like to pick them up to do V8 conversions on them because the diesel registration makes them exempt from emmissions testing in most states.

----------Robert

Mr. FancyPants · #14 09-10-2004, 08:01 AM

While I don't doubt that with a stringent and finite detailed maintenance schedule, and with every three week oil changes, limiting down to the store and back type driving, or making sure to leave the motor running while your in the store (if you break the rule and venture out to get milk) having the engine torn down every 100K for piston ring cleaning, there a wonderful diesel
automobile! Unfortunately, I just wouldn't have the time to own one!

rs899 · #15 09-10-2004, 09:31 AM

my 2 cents. RUN AWAY !!!!. I have a 4 Cyl VW Diesel and its OK. The major problem is aluminum head and warpage. You have that it spades with the 6 cyl. And parts are a serious problem. Stick with MBZ or get a Volvo gasser