I don't go for that arguement. $5.00 a gallon for gas AND you pay Road taxes every year for keeping the car legal. And almost NONE of that money goes for roads. Mostly to support pubic transportation so those people don't pay the REAL cost of using it. And for social welfare.

Just another way for bleeding the middle class dry for feel good programs for those who make less mostly due to life decisions.

THere are options to reduce our dependence on foriegn oil but the tree hugger lobby is agains drilling for oil we do have, and oil can be made from coal that we do have coming out of our ears. If we built more refineries that the enviromentalists don't want us to do we wouldn't have these false shortages created due to existing refineries running at capacity.

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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Kevin, my favorite analogy is to look at all those who complain about fuel costing $2.00 per gallon. I'll bet that these same people will go into a grocery store and purchase bottled water for about $5.00 per gallon, or purchase Coca-Cola for $4.00 per gallon, or purchase milk for $3.50 per gallon.

No *****ing going on then, is there.

But, since they need to purchase huge quantites of gasoline as compared to milk, water, and coke, there seems to be an expectation that gasoline should cost less.

Coke basically costs the company about $0.25 per gallon (approx.). They sell it for $4.00.

Crude oil costs $1.18 when it is pumped out of the ground. It is sold for $2.00. If the company were run by Coke, and they had to run advertising to get you to buy it, they would sell it for about $10.00 per gallon.

Hello?

I rented this past Spring, a Renault CLio in the Czech Republic that got 50 MPG +. My bottomline is the cost per mile is the same if you adjust to the driving habits in the Country. Not everybody drives a Mercedes over there. If I drove my 97 E300 in Europe it would cost more, but in the first place, I would not own a MB in Europe. I couldn't afford the upfront taxes and costs.

One of the reasons I bought the Diesel was to avoid gas lines. I am a survivor of the 70's. I was stuck in many a line in the North East at 5AM waiting for five lousy gallons of gas for a Olds 442 which got me about 60 miles. When we recently had the Hurricane Jean come through here, the panic set in and unleaded in the area was gone in a day. I merely cruised up to the diesel pump and filled my tank. Ahh. And if Dino would run out, I can go to VWO or Wesson if I have to. I reduced my driving by a factor of 10, now that I'm retired, but I relish my freedom from hysteria of the masses. I will probably never sell my Diesel after what I saw in the last few weeks. Who knows what will happen in the Mid East?

Exactly what is wanted is for you to blame other people. The truth is that the price is based on what the market will bear and not on the costs of production. That $50 shirt made in china, same story.

do both old air cooled gassers are easyly conveted to run on alcohall

I already did that. Over 70% of the times when I'd normally be driving my 300SD, now I just drive my Toyota Avalon. Both are large, luxurious comfortable cars, with the Avalon actually having more interior and trunk space and more luxury (well, its a much newer car) than the Benz. The 300SD averages 23 mpg, the Avalon averages 25 mpg and right now in my area diesel costs $1.98 and unleaded gasoline costs $1.85. However, the 300SD still gets 30% of its usual driving time because I just love it and even a newer Toyota with many new gadgets can't beat the prestige of the three pointed star. I might go back to using the 300SD a lot more because I did my calculations and it seems like I will be saving just about $2 a week by driving the Avalon more. Not significant in any way!

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Here's another comparison for you .
Diesel $3.72 / imp gal , plus road user charges just for diesel @ about 2.2c / km. for the under 2ton / 2 axles.
Petrol $5.68 / imp gal.

The 300D does about 29mpg and the 300sel does about 22 if I keep my foot out of it .

You can guess the diesel is the one that gets the 30k miles / yr on it .

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'72 240D
'76 300D
'88 300sel
'40 Chev pickup , the shop hack.
'73 Monte Carlo Landau, for "Super Chevy Sunday"

And part of it is directly related to the fact we havent built one new refinery to keep up with demand in 25 years. The existing refineries are running at near capacity normally.

That simple fact can be directly blamed on the enviromentalist lobby who have blocked new construction.

The, fact we aren't drilling and pumping more of our own than we are also, same group.

True unless they went full bore with coal gassification etc we wouldn't not be independent of the loons in the middle east, etc. But we would be LESS dependent.

These factors DO effect the market which is why prices are so high, I agree.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Sounds like we should be doing everything we can to use less of the stuff, doesn't it? Yet our national average fuel economy has been declining for 12 years and every other vehicle is an SUV burning the stuff like it's going out of fashion.

Suggesting that increasing capacity is the only answer is a bit like telling a morbidly obese person just to buy bigger pants. At some point we have to take responsibility for our actions and face the fact that if we choose to continue consuming fuel at the rate we have been, there will be increasingly steep prices to be paid. The bill at the pump is the least of our worries.

Kevin

I could care less who drives an SUV. Mostly (and I don't mean all) those who complain about SUV's and waste etc are the biggest wasters I know and also drive suv's. I have a freind that tells me to recycle my aluminum cans etc,,, He is the most wasteful person I know. and he preaches to me?. I am the most conservative person just the opposite. Instead of judging people by your own wasteful actions take care of your own house... The rest of us will do ours. The problem is people have too much time on their hands. They sit around and think of ways they can interfere with others lives always looking for trouble here and there, but never looking within where the real problem lies... Indy..

One thing I noticed on a trip to France last winter was that on the highway. most stations sell not only gasoline and Diesel (gasoil) but also LP gas, or Propane. It costs about €900 to convert a gasser to a system which starts on gasoline and then you can immediately switch over to propane.

The propane in France comes mostly from Russia. Here in the US the only thing that I have heard about it was back when they were building it, that that most notorious and annoying a-hole James Baker (a toady for the seven sisters of the oil lobby and buddy of both Olebush and his spawn Juniorbush) was against it because it wouild "create a dependence" by France on the then-USSR, by which he really meant, fewer profits for the members of the oligarchy whose hireling he was and is.

The USA has quite a lot of natural gas, and Canada and Mexico have more, and so far as I know, they are flaring it off at many wellheads. No politician I know of has mentioned the propane option.

While in France, I drove a friend's 90 Volvo wagon which was converted to propane about 170 miles into Spain and back, with no difficulty. It had over 400,000 Kms on the odometer. The radio had a display which announced the call letters of the station and the artist who was singing or the name of the program.

I seems to me that energy independence might be possible after all if all the options are incorporated into a comprehensive plan.

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Semibodacious Transmogrifications a Specialty

1990 300D 2.5 Turbo sedan 171K (Rudolf)
1985 300D Turbo TD Wagon 219K (Remuda)

"Time flies like and arrow, yet fruit flies like a banana"
---Marx (Groucho)

Is this a politics discussion? Ok Then: Big government blows and unions are anti productive Oh yeah rich go on thinking it's all a big conspiracy what else do you have to go on? When a party has nothing to offer but more taxes and bigger governent they have to demonize the other party or they would never win an election. You are just another pawn coersed to elect life time hate filled politicians that enrich themselves on the backs of the american people...

I completely agree. There is something in the pea brain of the SUV driver that allows this logic. You will additionally find that having any sort of logical discussion with these people is fruitless. Their favorite argument for buying an SUV is that they want a vehicle that is as big as the one "every one else has".

I can see it now. One of these bozos is going to buy a Peterbilt. Then what will be the result?

Without government mandate in the form of higher tax, or economic mandate, in the form of higher fuel prices, these *****boxes will continue to proliferate.

Is everyone aware that the United States now consumes 20% more fuel today than when GWB took office, four years ago?

Don't blame GWB, most of the SUV drivers around here support Dems.
And expect everyone ELSE to conserve.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I think you meant you completly disagree. The 20% increase (if that is accurate) would be because there are more people working and the economy is bouncing back plus the regular growth in the economy which is more in line with what is really hapenning. Only an environmentalcase would think punishing people into poverty by losing their jobs and increasing prices with taxes to enrich the already rich politicians is a good way to conserve....