Dirty Bombs and old diesels - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

coachgeo · #1 12-05-2004, 11:34 AM

well its a subject none of us like to think about butttttttt. What will a dirty bomb do to our old diesels? Fry the bat. alternator and starter? what about relays like for the headlights and glow plugs? etc etc.

Can we store any of that stuff in "something" to have for use if we are in ground zero of a dirty bomb attack. What would that "something" be? When would it be safe to use?

Dumb question to add to this. What about my mom's pacemaker?

kamil · #2 12-05-2004, 11:46 AM

can you give me a definition of a dirty bomb ? I think I'm thinking of something else than you are...

PatrickW · #3 12-05-2004, 11:46 AM

A "Dirty Bomb" won't do anything to our diesels, unless your close enough to maybe suck up some crud in the aircleaner. But if you're that close, you'll have other worries...

I believe your question deals with the EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) that is generated upon detonation of a nuclear warhead (not the same as a "Dirty Bomb"). This EMP is known to damage unshielded electronics.

In this case - depending upon the distance your car is from the blast - older cars (such as 240D's) would probably survive better than newer cars (such as CDI's) by virtue of having fewer complex electronic systems that would be damaged by an EMP.

- Patrick

kamil · #4 12-05-2004, 11:48 AM

I knew I was thinking of something different.

MikeTangas · #5 12-05-2004, 11:53 AM

I was under the impression that EMPs would only cook operating electronics. Perhaps that is only movie myth?

leathermang · #6 12-05-2004, 11:58 AM

Well, maybe you guys with ' newer' MB's should be researching " Faraday" shields....

Wodnek · #7 12-05-2004, 01:05 PM

The only thing an EMP would probably do our old MBs is drain the battery down to nothing. If it was running at the time it should stay running since it is mechanical injected and depends on nothing electrical.

Fuzzball · #8 12-05-2004, 01:14 PM

Hmmmm......If my Diesel is close enough to a dirty bomb....I'm not going to be worrying much about my car.....

Which is why I don't worry about it at all....worry is a wasted emotion and typically proves to be for naught.

Jim H · #9 12-05-2004, 01:24 PM

A changing magnetic field induces current flow in conductors through electromagnetic coupling.

It induces current a conductor, and if the current is too large, the conductor or connections melt, like 'blowing' a fuse.

It induces a voltage across the gap of a condutor, and if the voltage is too large, a spark will 'jump' across the gap, or from the conductor to ground, like lightning. The resulting current can then melt conductors and connection, as above.

This effect is used in power transformers, in which the current through the primary windings induces a voltage in the secondary windings. Every size, from large utility to doorbell transfomers behaves this way.

ElectroMagnetic induction is commonly used in gasser engines. Interrupting current in the primary coil induces a rapidly-change in the field (it collapses very fast) which induces 15-25,000 volts in the secndary coil. This is sufficient to bridge the gap of the spark plug, and other unintended gaps as well.

The A-bomb produces fast-changing electric and magnetic fields. The speed of change is like a spike, or pulse, thus the name Electo- Magnetic Pulse (EMP)

The magnetic pulse then induces transient currents and voltages in conductors. Solid-state devices have small (microscopic) distances between conductors, and thus are very susceptible to overvoltages. EMP will thus 'fry' or 'burn out' solid state devices that have not been designed to withstand overcurrents and overvoltages.

Diesel engines will not be affected, BUT solid state devices, perhaps alternator voltage regulators, electronic diesel controls, ACC control, etc. in the car may be damaged.

Remember to "Duck and Cover"

Best Regards,
Jim

coachgeo · #10 12-05-2004, 02:08 PM

any bomb that messes with my diesel is dirty

so what components do you folk reccomend to put away? Components to put the ol MB diesels back to running is what I mean. How do you seal them from potential damage. Can we burry them?

phidauex · #11 12-05-2004, 02:38 PM

Edit: The following post contains real answers, but also lots of humor. For cultural references, refer to Car Talk, and the movie Mad Max starring Mel Gibson.

Technically, a 'dirty bomb' is a conventional explosive with a coating or shell of radioactive material. It blows stuff up like a regular bomb, but scatters bits of radioactive dust all over the place, which isn't cool at all. Nothing like a true nuclear device, but still scary.

As the rugged survivalist that you are, I'd recommend moving far away from any urban area, since thats where a nuclear weapon would be aimed.

Second, take your sensitive electronics (only the most important ones, I think I could live without cruise control in a post-apocalyptic war zone), put them in a metal box, and seal it well. As long as it is a contiguous area of conductivity, you'll have a "Faraday Cage" which will not be penetrated by an electromagnetic pulse. Bury it for extra safety if you wish. Practice bump starting your car, which you'll be able to do even with no electrical system at all. Now is also the time to start putting armor on the body plates and big knobby tires for driving through and over rubble.

Remember your iodine pills; one of the biggest dangers of a nuclear attack is the radioactive fallout, which usually takes the form of radioactive iodine isotopes, which are taken up by your thyroid glands and held snuggly at the base of your neck, which is the last place you want radioactive material. Taking iodine pills saturates your thyroid so it won't uptake any of the radioactive iodine in the air. At least, thats the theory.

Also, I recommend hoarding fuel and ammunition now. If you want to become a post-apocolyptic warlord you'll need a stock of both. Also, practice fighting with a club, because one day you may be called upon to fight to the death in the THUNDERDOME in order to avert another great war, and you'll want to be in good shape for that.

EDIT: I see you own a MOG. That'll make the perfect urban assault vehicle for protecting your stronghold. If you can figure out a way to mount guns on it, that will be even better. Flame throwers are optional, but encouraged. Make a list of people you trust, and after the great war if you are driving around, and you see someone who isn't on that list, run them over; you don't know who they are, or why they are trying to steal your fuel or guns, which they are most certainly trying to do.

Good luck!

Peace,
Sam

coachgeo · #12 12-05-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phidauex

.....As the rugged survivalist that you are, I'd recommend .....blah blah blah,
Sam

Way out of line comments Sam!!! You don’t know my friends, my family or me. NO I did not read any jest aimed toward me in your comments either.

I own several diesels (300D, Nissan Maxima, 617powered Mog excursion CAMPER, and a diesel genset for Hurricane season). As you can guess from my screename; I am a coach and not a survivalist nut cake.. No not the crew cut, flaming nostrils, egomaniac, screaming football/hockey coach you’re thinking off either. I am a professional youth coach; preschoolers and Elm. students mostly.

Anyway, times are achanging!. No matter how you slice it we in the US are closer to some form of attack be it biological, nuclear, or conventional than anytime in my lifetime. I have a family and friends to think off. Hopefully it does not get to the point where I have to go beyond thinking and actually implement some preparations. But I and anyone else would be STUPID to not think it thru.

phidauex · #13 12-05-2004, 06:05 PM

Ooo, sorry for the offense, my comments really were rooted in humor, just the dry sort that apparently does not translate well into writing.

The 'rugged survivalist' comment is an oblique reference to Car Talk where they frequently make fun of diesels as being popular among 'rugged survivalists' who think that having an engine that requires nothing more than its own heat to keep working is a very macho sort of thing. Wasn't trying to imply that you are crazy or anything.

And really, past the dry humor, the answers to your questions actually ARE in my post, practice bump starting engines, and keep sensitive electronics in a faraday cage (a contiguous conductive container, say that three times fast). Your battery and starter motor would probably make it through a big EMP, even if the control circuitry didn't, so if you know where your starter wires go, you could probably hotwire straight to the battery to get it started.

Again, sorry if I offended you, I've spent some time in the deep desert and you get used to thinking about how to get stuff done when there are no facilities or infrastructure around. Then I got myself onto a little Mad Max trip, and just went from there.

I know your questions are rooted in a desire to be prepared for the sake of your loved ones, and I was just trying to throw in some humor along with my suggestions.

Peace,
Sam

coachgeo · #14 12-05-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phidauex

...And really, past the dry humor, the answers to your questions actually ARE in my post, ...
Peace,
Sam

yes, I saw your answers mixed in the fray. Good information. Thanks for clarifying the dry humor.

PatrickW · #15 12-05-2004, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo

Anyway, times are achanging!. No matter how you slice it we in the US are closer to some form of attack be it biological, nuclear, or conventional than anytime in my lifetime.

The enemies change, but the threats remain.

In the early '60's, President Kennedy got on TV and said something to the effect of "any attack by any nation upon any other nation in the Western Hemisphere will be regarded as an attack on the US by the Soviet Union, requireing a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union".

Definitely not a stance that a modern Democrat would take.

Now days, the threats are more distributed and diffuse. Best thing we can do as citizens is to make sure we've always got elected officials in office who are ready to "use a big stick" (to paraphrase President T. Roosevelt).

The way to do that is to keep on voting Republican.

And keep that diesel flowing....

- Patrick