really, REALLY hard start this morning :(

[dannym]

Hello everyone,
It was bad this morning. I almost drained my battery getting it started. 1984 300SD. Lots of smoke. It was about 10 deg C and I was getting scared. I thought I would have to ride my motorcycle to work!
The weird thing is I just went out and started it right up,. the temp now is 16 deg C.
I took some OHM readings on the plugs on the 200k scale from the plug socket on the wheel well to a ground on the shock absorber:
1-21.3
2-29.3
3-21.2
4-.000
5-.000
Also, I have never seen my glow plug light come on but I'm sure at least some of them are working because I had some starting trouble before and I replaced plugs 4 & 5 and it cleared right up. they were reading 1.000 before I replaced them.
I thought it might be a burned out bulb but I just tested and swapped it with one that I know works and it still didn't light up. I checked all the fuses in the fuse box and they are all good.

I'm sorry if this has been addressed before. I checked the DIY section but it wasn't much help. I really need some help from you guys here I don't want to ride my motorcycle in this weather. That would really stink!

Danny

[Brian Carlton]

The resistance values on a 200K scale are meaningless.

You need to find a suitable meter that can measure on a 10 ohm scale, maximum.

You are looking for values below 1 ohm on all plugs. You must ground the test equipment to the battery, and not the shock tower, to ensure you are getting valid readings.

If any plugs read above 1 ohm, or, you get a value of infinity (open circuit), replace the plug.

Remember, many times the vehicle will fail to start if it gets too much fuel without a light. Usually, at very cold temperatures, you get one chance to start it. This is why the owners manual suggests to hold the key in the start position and not let go until you are sure that the engine is fully running at idle.

[coldwar]

Originally Posted by dannym

Hello everyone,
It was bad this morning. I almost drained my battery getting it started. 1984 300SD. Lots of smoke. It was about 10 deg C and I was getting scared. I thought I would have to ride my motorcycle to work!
The weird thing is I just went out and started it right up,. the temp now is 16 deg C.
Danny

Here's a real simple factor that's very easy to overlook this time of year depending on where you live, and it was a "gotcha" for me- filling stations may still be transitioning from #2 (Summer) Diesel to #1 (Winter). Especially if you last filled up at a low sales volume for Diesel place, you might have got a tank full of #2, and at 10 deg C there would be some partial clouding of #2. For me it was far worse- we had a real sudden cold snap from +15 C to -8 C, and on that cold morning my car started, ran for about 5 sec. then stopped cold. My attempted re-starts had absolutely no combustion happening at all, so I pretty much knew what it was. Then, the next day we went back up to a daytime high of +12 deg C, and the car came to life instantly- in fact, I don't think it has ever started as easy!

So when it's warm, if you still have a lot of fuel from your last fill-up on board, get yourself some kerosene or even some regular gas and put it in your tank. That will keep things flowing until you get #1- obviously you need to ask the attendant if they have their winter Diesel yet (you might get a blank stare back at ya')

[Old300D]

I will lay odds you have 3 bad glow plugs. Agreed with 200k scale. Use the lowest scale you can, and get your ground connection directly to the head. My plugs measure on the order of 0.5 ohms.

[dannym]

hey,
I don't know if I want to put regular gas or kerosene in my tank. I'm too new to this diesel stuff to mess around like that.

I'll take some more readings later after work. I'm ok with going to the battery ground but do I test at the plug or is it ok to test at the connection on the wheel well?

Having the starter on while the engine is cranking on it's own power won't hurt it? that always has me worried. It almost kicked over a couple of times but I stopped because I didn't want to hurt the starter.

Also, what I really want to know is why isn't the plug light coming on? How do you check the relay? Is that the black box above the plug connector on the wheel well? Is there another fuse for the plugs besides the fuses in the fuse box? The FYI instructions mentioned

The fuse is a small, exposed strip.

But I didn't see anything like this.

Help me please

Danny

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by dannym

I don't know if I want to put regular gas or kerosene in my tank. I'm too new to this diesel stuff to mess around like that.

Kerosene is simply #1 diesel fuel. The M/B owner's manual suggests using kerosene, in various proportions, to assist in cold starts when using only #2 diesel. You can run the engine on 100% kerosene, however, it will be lacking in power because the fuel has less energy than #2 diesel.

Originally Posted by dannym

I'll take some more readings later after work. I'm ok with going to the battery ground but do I test at the plug or is it ok to test at the connection on the wheel well?

It is preferred to test at the connection on the wheel well. Just pull the plug and connect the probe to each one of the sockets.

Originally Posted by dannym

Having the starter on while the engine is cranking on it's own power won't hurt it? that always has me worried. It almost kicked over a couple of times but I stopped because I didn't want to hurt the starter.

It's not a gasoline engine and the starter is designed for this purpose. Just hold that key in the start position until you are somewhat sure tht it will run on its own. Naturally, it's better to not rev it up if the starter is engaged.
When you stop the process, you are much less likely to get it going on the second or third attempt.

Originally Posted by dannym

Also, what I really want to know is why isn't the plug light coming on? How do you check the relay? Is that the black box above the plug connector on the wheel well? Is there another fuse for the plugs besides the fuses in the fuse box? The FYI instructions mentioned But I didn't see anything like this.

The plug light is not coming on because you likely have a few bad glow plugs.

You can check the relay by setting up a voltmeter on one of the plugs. Turn to the run position and check for 12V at one of the plugs.

The relay is the black box above the plug connector on the wheel well. Take the cover off and there will be a copper plate that is secured with two screws on the top of the relay. This plate is the fuse. It does not look like a fuse, but it is an 80A fuse. If you have any doubts about the condition of this fuse, replace it. It's only a $2.00 item.

Originally Posted by dannym

Help me please

Help is what we do here.

[boneheaddoctor]

I have 5 new glow plugs and my glow plug light only works once in a blue moon...but the glow plugs are coming on.

[braverichard]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Kerosene is simply #1 diesel fuel.

Kerosene and Diesel #1 are 100% the same substance?

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by braverichard

Kerosene and Diesel #1 are 100% the same substance?

The posts on the forum indicate that they are, however, I have not personally confirmed it.

[boneheaddoctor]

Well #1 has federal excise taxes and road taxes on it, and kerosene doesn't........besides that I always believed them to be the same also...but I'm not a chemist.

[dannym]

Help is what we do here.

I know, you guys are awesome! and the gals too


Ok, you convinced me on the kerosene!
Now where to buy it?? Walmart? Ace Hardware?

Danny

BTW, I rebuilt my vacuum pump and fixed those problems with your help and the instructions in the DIY section. Thanks to everyone for your help

[conroe4]

The "crude oil" pumped out of the ground is a black liquid called petroleum. This liquid contains aliphatic hydrocarbons, or hydrocarbons composed of nothing but hydrogen and carbon. The carbon atoms link together in chains of different lengths.

It turns out that hydrocarbon molecules of different lengths have different properties and behaviors. For example, a chain with just one carbon atom in it (CH4) is the lightest chain, known as methane. Methane is a gas so light that it floats like helium. As the chains get longer, they get heavier.

The first four chains -- CH4 (methane), C2H6 (ethane), C3H8 (propane) and C4H10 (butane) -- are all gases, and they boil at -161, -88, -46 and -1 degrees F, respectively (-107, -67, -43 and -18 degrees C). The chains up through C18H32 or so are all liquids at room temperature, and the chains above C19 are all solids at room temperature.

The different chain lengths have progressively higher boiling points, so they can be separated out by distillation. This is what happens in an oil refinery -- crude oil is heated and the different chains are pulled out by their vaporization temperatures. (See How Oil Refining Works for details.)

The chains in the C5, C6 and C7 range are all very light, easily vaporized, clear liquids called naphthas. They are used as solvents -- dry cleaning fluids can be made from these liquids, as well as paint solvents and other quick-drying products.

The chains from C7H16 through C11H24 are blended together and used for gasoline. All of them vaporize at temperatures below the boiling point of water. That's why if you spill gasoline on the ground it evaporates very quickly.

Next is kerosene, in the C12 to C15 range, followed by diesel fuel and heavier fuel oils (like heating oil for houses).

Next come the lubricating oils. These oils no longer vaporize in any way at normal temperatures. For example, engine oil can run all day at 250 degrees F (121 degrees C) without vaporizing at all. Oils go from very light (like 3-in-1 oil) through various thicknesses of motor oil through very thick gear oils and then semi-solid greases. Vasoline falls in there as well.

Chains above the C20 range form solids, starting with paraffin wax, then tar and finally asphaltic bitumen, which used to make asphalt roads.

All of these different substances come from crude oil. The only difference is the length of the carbon chains!

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by dannym

Ok, you convinced me on the kerosene!
Now where to buy it?? Walmart? Ace Hardware?

Neither WalMart nor Ace Hardware. If you are firmly convinced that you need to add it, because you are getting summer #2 diesel, then you are going to have to find a service station that pumps kerosene. You will need to add a decent amount (20% minimum) to have the desired effect. So, if you have a 20 gallon tank, you will need at least 4 gallons of kero. This is not something that you want to buy at a hardware store.

I do believe that you are getting ahead of yourself. If the glow plugs are not working properly, the engine won't start on diesel fuel and it won't start on the diesel/kero blend.

[Wodnek]

Kerosene (K1) vs #1 heating oil vs Diesel #1
All are #1 oils.
Kerosene is essentially pure clean #1 oil, its made with no or few additives to use in direct vent heaters as to not put out nasty fumes.

#1 heating oil and #1 heating oil is the same stuff but with additive packages such as biocides to protect against unpleasant things that can happen to it sitting in a tank. You can see this if you run these in a kerosene torpedo heater . These heaters will often smoke a bit or smell funny with these oils.

Kerosene can usually be found at heating oil suppliers, look in the yellow pages. Around here Kerosene is $2.25 a gallon. Kerosene is clear, making it good to "cut" #2 diesel. Heating oil is usually died red like off road diesel so cutting with this could concievably get you in trouble.

[dannym]

Yeah, I figured to check the glow plugs first. I just wanted to get my ducks in a row here.

As a side note. A station that sells Kerosene (pretty far from me though) was accidentally filled with gasoline instead. They had to do a recall. there were announcements all over the news.
Luckily only a few people purchased it and they all returned the gasoline and noone was hurt.

Danny