Newer M-B terribly unreliable? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

braverichard · #1 11-09-2004, 12:13 PM

Excerpt from Detroit Newspaper article about the results of the most recent Consumer Reports Survey on vehicle dependability.

Quote:

Hyundai's $16,000 Sonata sedan is among the "most reliable" sedans. Mercedes-Benz's $75,000 S-class and BMW's $70,000 7 Series are among the "least reliable."

BMW officials say they are confident their cars will do better in next year's survey.

Mercedes officials say their internal tracking shows improvement across all Mercedes models.

"The better measure of reliability is the fact that 72% of the over 2 million Mercedes-Benz vehicles that have been sold in the USA since the 1950s are still on the road today," says Geoff Day, Mercedes spokesman.

Still selling M-Bs on the old reputation are we?

boneheaddoctor · #2 11-09-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braverichard

Excerpt from Detroit Newspaper article about the results of the most recent Consumer Reports Survey on vehicle dependability.

Still selling M-Bs on the old reputation are we?

And still catering to the gaget obsessed and not the quality obsessed

braverichard · #3 11-09-2004, 12:41 PM

I love gadgets, I'm huge on technology and new inventions. I don't mind having to deal with a few quirks if something is completely new. M-B may not be doing a very bad thing afterall. Many years ago, people actually kept their cars for a long time. Most people purchased, not leased, these luxury cars. Today it is a different story. Why build a car that will be very good to last for 30 years when the guy who takes the huge depreciation will only have it for five years at the most? Still, all that aside, they have to attend to the quality issues. I believe they are already doing that. If this company could survive two world wars that were very harsh on Germany, this quality problem will be a piece of cake for it - only if they really want to solve it!!

I just found that statistic stated by the M-B rep to be very interesting. I wonder if any other brand can make such a claim... maybe Toyota, but most of the old Toyotas have rusted away.

Ken300D · #4 11-09-2004, 12:42 PM

They don't refer to the new cars as Daimler-CHRYSLER for nothing!

Ken300D

P.S. Couldn't get me in a 2005 CDI in 2025 for nothing either.

boneheaddoctor · #5 11-09-2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braverichard

I love gadgets, I'm huge on technology and new inventions. I don't mind having to deal with a few quirks if something is completely new. M-B may not be doing a very bad thing afterall. Many years ago, people actually kept their cars for a long time. Most people purchased, not leased, these luxury cars. Today it is a different story. Why build a car that will be very good to last for 30 years when the guy who takes the huge depreciation will only have it for five years at the most? Still, all that aside, they have to attend to the quality issues. I believe they are already doing that. If this company could survive two world wars that were very harsh on Germany, this quality problem will be a piece of cake for it - only if they really want to solve it!!

I just found that statistic stated by the M-B rep to be very interesting. I wonder if any other brand can make such a claim... maybe Toyota, but most of the old Toyotas have rusted away.

Years ago cars barely lasted 4-7 years...........on the most part without major work. Now they last 1-200,000 miles. That was unheard of 30 years ago on original engines. ITs the gagets that make the car unreliable.

Look at our cars....the Climate control and Cruise are both unreliable (still) but those are the only gagets to deal with. New ones are built with planned obsolescence formost in the design......

d.delano · #6 11-09-2004, 01:12 PM

Sensotronic brakes. Who the hell needs that. Maybe better driver education courses that actually TEACH these women about driving dynamics will make the roads safer. Disconnecting the driver from the road is just asking for trouble.

Hatterasguy · #7 11-09-2004, 01:20 PM

My SDL is very reliable it has never let me down. She also always starts and stops.

But I only have to fix a few things every week.

The same can be said for a W140 and I'm sure a W220. All complicated cutting edge cars are expensive to keep going. Heck look at the W116 6.9! It had air suspension in the late 70's! That didn't come back until 1999.

MB's were never ment to be cheap to run they were ment to run for a long time.

boneheaddoctor · #8 11-09-2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

My SDL is very reliable it has never let me down. She also always starts and stops.

But I only have to fix a few things every week.

The same can be said for a W140 and I'm sure a W220. All complicated cutting edge cars are expensive to keep going. Heck look at the W116 6.9! It had air suspension in the late 70's! That didn't come back until 1999.

MB's were never ment to be cheap to run they were ment to run for a long time.

thats the point, they can be complicated or they can last........lately the two seem to be mutually exclusive.

Hatterasguy · #9 11-09-2004, 01:24 PM

But BMW has MB beat by a long shot. Last I heard the 760 came with two I drives!

That must be fun to fix! Imagin the wires!

boneheaddoctor · #10 11-09-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

But BMW has MB beat by a long shot. Last I heard the 760 came with two I drives!

That must be fun to fix! Imagin the wires!

I've heard those 7xx series Bimmers have had more than their share of issues too.

DslBnz · #11 11-09-2004, 01:38 PM

Speaking of airmatic. Go to your local dealer and search for customer cars. See how many S-Class Benzes you can see resting their bodies on the ground.

Same idea. I hate air suspension.

Guys, MB quality going down is old news. They have no intentions of making changes to their manufacturing process. Despite what they "say".

Once a liar, always a liar.

Hatterasguy · #12 11-09-2004, 02:13 PM

DslBnz thats the point I was getting at. Airsuspension was a paint to get working right back then and it still is today.

Imagin paying a dealer to troubleshoot a vac problem on a 300D!

$400 in labor and $5 for the part!

I am saying that Mercedes have always been expensive cars to own and run. Just the problems change but they are still pretty much the same. A $70k car will be more expensive to run then a $16k Hyundai I don't care who makes it. But if you can afford to buy a $70k+ car you should not complain about a few thousand a year maintaince. All European cars are expensive to maintain.

Electronics are the only wild card but I bet in 10 years they will be better.

Scott98 · #13 11-09-2004, 03:07 PM

It seems that cars have always implemented the latest technology from day one. Car used to have points then they used distributors. Cars used to have carburators and then they switched to fuel injection. As computers were developed, computer controls were slowly added to automobiles.

I don't think that adding the latest technology to a car is a recent thing. It's just that technology recently has become so complicated that the average person can't work with it. This really complex technology didn't start happening until the end of the '80s and into the 90's and is true for all car manufacturers.

The general rule that the more complex something is the more things that can go wrong with it is true. That's probably why we are seeing so many reliability issues with newer cars. However, that's not to say that Mercedes is cutting corners in areas where it shouldn't be. Who knows. We'll have to wait 20 years and see what happens.

Scott

#14 11-09-2004, 03:20 PM

best (and often simplest) engineering, materials, assemblers, and always "overbuilt". THAT's what dad and granddad paid good money for. The Mercedes-Benz diesel engine in the humble 240D was produced to what would be called "professional grade" specs...it costs MORE to build each quality diesel engine unit, which is why so few companies have tried to do so successfully. The Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost was so robust that its chassis could carry tons of armor plate and still perform reliably (viz Lawrence of Arabia). Some of those Ghost-based armored cars were still around 40 years later. A book written in the '50s notes the comment an Hispano-Suiza owner received when he had his 25 year old car checked over at 100,000 miles..."Looks good...bring it back for another look when you complete your next 100,000 miles." The early '80s Benzes were the last of the cars built to last a lifetime, if not mistreated. But then there was a patrician (and often just middle class) culture that bought the best it could afford, and then took care of whatever it was...Brooks Brothers suits that could last for 20 years, watches, furniture, houses, firearms and other sporting goods...which it was understood would someday be heirlooms.

The "cheap" KIA embodies more of this philosophy than the circuitry-packed and leather-lined $$$$$ Benz or BMW.

Scott98 · #15 11-09-2004, 03:37 PM

[QUOTE/ But then there was a patrician (and often just middle class) culture that bought the best it could afford, and then took care of whatever it was...Brooks Brothers suits that could last for 20 years, watches, furniture, houses, firearms and other sporting goods...which it was understood would someday be heirlooms.

The "cheap" KIA embodies more of this philosophy than the circuitry-packed and leather-lined $$$$$ Benz or BMW.[/QUOTE]

You are right. But, given the technology that is used in cars today, could Mercedes build one that is as reliable as a 123? I'm sure they could if they didn't use all of the latest technology. But going back to your original point, there isn't a market out there anymore for that. If there was, that's what Mercedes would be building. In fact, that really worries me because I wonder what in the world I will be driving in 20 years. There are only so many 123's left now.

Scott