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  #1  
Old 01-16-2005, 07:25 PM
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Exclamation Help: looking to purchase a '79 240d

the car seems ok, has 275k miles on it, cruise, locks, and such is still operable, little rust on the body from what i can tell, no complete rust thru, takes about 7 sec. for the glows to go off in 45 degree weather from a cold start. its had 3 owners, been garaged most of its life. interior still in good shape, no leaks from what i can see. its going to hopefully be my 1st car, and need to know if it'll be a good investment. dont really know much about cars, other than what ive learned lurking in various forums, especially this one. how much do you guys think its workth and what should i look out for, any immediate maitenence, cost of upkeep for something this, etc, and any insight for me! thx a lot every 1!

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Old 01-16-2005, 07:51 PM
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I'm sure others will chime in, but I think a manual 240D can be one of the most reliable cars you can find-but, an automatic has trouble getting out of its own way. Be sure to check suspension and brakes thoroughly-on a 26 year old car, they will need to have been serviced recently. I've seen junky 240Ds go as low as $500, I think a decent(preferably manual trans)one would be worth anywhere from $1500-$2500. Post some pictures if you have any.
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  #3  
Old 01-16-2005, 11:28 PM
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240D's are great cars, but remeber is it a 26 year old car. Maintaince history is everything. How does it drive? Any blow-by? Does the owner seem to care about it? Can you work on it and fix things yourself? I wouldn't recommed an old car to someone who can't work on them.

These are very simple cars, just keep the fluids and filters clean also adjust the valves every 15k. Thats about it, rust will kill it before the engine dies.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2005, 09:22 AM
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well, theres no blowby that i can see, and the 1st owner had it for 20 years, and he kept it garaged the whole time he had it. very babied. it probably needs an oil change, and as for the valve adjustment, not really sure. how can one tell that it needs one? could a beginner do regular maitenence on a 240d theirselves? thx for the feedback everyone!

btw, its an automatic, should i be looking for any other problems associated with that? sometimes when going from 2nd to 3rd, it shifts hard and pulls some in the process. working on those pics too.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2005, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smileydude
well, theres no blowby that i can see, and the 1st owner had it for 20 years, and he kept it garaged the whole time he had it. very babied. it probably needs an oil change, and as for the valve adjustment, not really sure. how can one tell that it needs one? could a beginner do regular maitenence on a 240d theirselves? thx for the feedback everyone!

btw, its an automatic, should i be looking for any other problems associated with that? sometimes when going from 2nd to 3rd, it shifts hard and pulls some in the process. working on those pics too.
From my experience, the best indication of need for valve adjustment is how well does the engine re-start once warmed up. Warm it up fully by driving it, then shut it off, wait 5 minutes then try to start it without using the glow plugs.(ie- don't turn key to pre-glow- just crank immediately). If it takes several cranks to start, or doesn't start at all, it most likely needs a valve adjustment. Went through this myself. Some say you always need to pre-glow even when warm, but after I got my valves set right, I can re-start within 10 minutes without glowing even in sub-freezing temperatures.

I don't think a beginner could do valve adjustment. Other things like oil and filter changes are a piece of cake.

Dave
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2005, 11:13 AM
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"Maintaince (sic) history is everything"--Hatterasguy

Why do people Torment me with statements like this ? They would know if they thought about it that it is wrong...but they post them and then will be angry with with me when I point out how illogical it was.

THE CURRENT PHYSICAL CONDITION OF THE CAR IS ALL THAT IS IMPORTANT.

And the only good way to find that out is to hire someone with all the equipment and skill to use a checklist and examine the entire car. This would be about a $100 investment in something like " Lemon Busters"... etc..

I am only going to give a few examples of what would not show up in the ' maintenance history' but would be crucial to the evaluation of the condition of the car..

1. The owner has every oil change record at the proper number of miles from the dealer... but the car's oil plug came loose once and the car was driven (pick a number) of minutes before the driver noticed that no oil pressure was showing on the guage...

2. A radiator hose gave way or split and the engine overheated before then owner realized what was happening...

3. In winter the owner slid into a curb on ice... but some shop set the toe-in so you can not feel any problems.... but you will have to redo the front end to keep from wearing out tires.

4. The Maintenance History was kept in the owner's house that burned down.
It could be a GEM of a car... with absolutely NO " maintenance History" in the sence of " paper documentation" ... which is what I took H's statement to mean... as compared to " the actual maintenance history" .. the physical things which were done to the car which are not knowable at this point in time.

I have a manual shift 240d.... which I consider the perfect car. I would stay away from any 20 year old Mercedes with an Auto transmission.. because when it goes bad it can double (or more) the amount you have invested in you car getting it fixed...

" Does the owner seem to care about it? " -Hatterasguy

So now this first time car buyer is supposed to be an expert in determining how good an ACTOR the car owner is ? and I know plenty of people who DO care about things mechanical but have never learned enough to take care of something as sophisticated and complicated as a car....

Anyway , how many times would you be dealing with a ONE owner 26 year old car ? So how does " Owner seem to care about it " help then ?

Take the car to an independant company like " lemon Busters'.... IF YOU ARE WILLING TO IGNORE MY ADVICE ABOUT OLD MB AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION COSTS. (and the 240 has no extra power to spare losing to a slushbox anyway.)

Hopefully I am already on Hattersguy's ignore list so this won't upset him.
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  #7  
Old 01-17-2005, 01:17 PM
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smily,

The perfect way to know if the valves need to be adjusted is to measure the valve clearance with feeler gages.

If any of the intake valve are less than .004 inch and any of the exhaust valves less than .014 inch, those valves need adjustment. I have found that valves don't have to be adjusted less that every 25,000 miles on older engines.

P E H
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2005, 01:22 PM
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No your not on my ignore list yet.

First smileydude not to drive your thread off track so I will keep it short.

Yes if you know MB's top to bottom you can go through the car and figure out exactly what it needs. I would buy another W126 without history because I know exactly what to look for and exactly what goes wrong.

Having said that I want a car that has been taken care of and updated, so I am not stuck with the updating. By getting one with a full documented history I know what has been done and when. Also it checks the odo.

Things like was the oil changed? with what kind?

What has been breaking?

Did the owner replace anything? shocks, suspension parts, radiator ect?

Telling if the owner cares about the car is easy, if it is sitting in a garage thats a plus, do they take pride in it ect. Since the same guy has had it for 20 years he probably took care of it and liked the car a lot.


My next MB will be fully documented and have a complete maintaince history.


Back on topic, can you take it to a shop that works on these cars to get a PPI done? I would think Lemon busters wouldn't really know where to start with these. I don't know how much he is asking but a PPI usually costs about $200 and I think is worth every cent. Then you will know exactly what you have. Good luck the 240D's are simple to work on and cool little cars.
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2005, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang
THE CURRENT PHYSICAL CONDITION OF THE CAR IS ALL THAT IS IMPORTANT.

And the only good way to find that out is to hire someone with all the equipment and skill to use a checklist and examine the entire car. This would be about a $100 investment in something like " Lemon Busters"... etc..
Greg, you're putting too many eggs in that basket. Lemon Busters is not a magical service that is going to tell you every detail about the vehicle and what you can expect for problems in the next few years. They do an acceptable job, however, it is not all encompassing.

If Hattie finds a vehicle that has a maintenance history, and he sees that the radiator, upper control arms, tie rods, lower ball joints, hoses, belts, transmission fluid, brake rotors, brake hoses, brake fluid, shock absorbers, flex discs, etc. have all been replaced within the last five years, he can be somewhat confident that these items will not need replacement in the next two to three years.

Lemon Busters is not going to tell if the lower ball joints are on their last 10K.
They won't be able to tell you that the radiator is original and requires replacement within the next year.
They certainly won't be able to tell you if the brake fluid was ever changed thereby mitigating brake repair in the immediate future.

I agree with you that Lemon Busters can provide some information regarding the current condition of the vehicle. However, a maintenance history can also tell you quite a bit about the items that have been replaced and the items that you will not have to immediately replace.

Both are valuable.

Now, to determine if the seller seems like he took care of it...............well............that's a bit dangerous.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 01-17-2005 at 01:55 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2005, 04:45 PM
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I am hoping that an independant mechanical appraiser type company would at least do a compression check , know to look for structural rust possibilities, and at least have a list of things to look for and check them off...

How many major mistakes in buying cars did I make before I knew what to look for ? Several.. and this guy is talking about his first car... and it is very old.... and we know that they (MB's) do have some Quirks in terms of age.

The other thing about " someone who cares for their cars" ... I think the DIY's on this forum care much more than the average person... but I know that I don't document my oil changes... for example... I know when it needs it..and I change it.. but I will have no paperwork to show that to someone.

PS... don't use the odometer to consider the Current Physical Condition of a car.. way TOO easy for one to break / get run back / get updated to let that influence the money you put out for a car...
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2005, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang
I am hoping that an independant mechanical appraiser type company would at least do a compression check , know to look for structural rust possibilities, and at least have a list of things to look for and check them off...

How many major mistakes in buying cars did I make before I knew what to look for ? Several.. and this guy is talking about his first car... and it is very old.... and we know that they (MB's) do have some Quirks in terms of age.
I agree with you. But, to say that "the current physical condition of the car is all that is important" would put too much emphasis on the report by the "independent mechanical appraiser".

Sure, they may do a compression check, and they will definitely poke around for rust, and they are a valuable service for a person that does not know the specific vehicle very well. Hell, they are also a valuable service for you and I who know what to look for but may have put on the rose colored glasses because we headed over there thinking we want this vehicle.

Now, if there is a maintenance and repair history, the potential owner may come to realize that he needs to do the entire front end completely over, at a parts cost of over $1K, because it has never been done. A vehicle with 250K on the clock is going to need this, no matter what the independent appraiser states regarding the steering system when he drives it. Does the appraiser get down on his back, jack up one of the front wheels, and take a prybar to the various joints on the front end? I sincerely doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leathermang
So now this first time car buyer is supposed to be an expert in determining how good an ACTOR the car owner is ? and I know plenty of people who DO care about things mechanical but have never learned enough to take care of something as sophisticated and complicated as a car....
This is right on the money. There are very few people that can know everything about the vehicle that they currently own, to the degree that they can determine what components are nearing the end of their service life prior to the failure of the component. Furthermore, said individual would then need the tools, skills, and time to repair the item properly. Many small items on all of our vehicles go unrepaired due to the lack of one, or more than one, of the above items.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 01-17-2005 at 05:06 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2005, 05:09 PM
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I did not say " the report of the actual condition" ... I mean the Actual Condition... however checked... and I just think unless he has some MB guy who is not involved moneywise in the transaction that he as a new to automobile buying guy needs some experienced mechanical people to look at it..

"what to look for but may have put on the rose colored glasses because we headed over there thinking we want this vehicle."

I have bought many cars in my lifetime... and I did this MYSELF 6 years ago when I got my 81 123 wagon.. I think the wagons are the prettiest autos made...and it had the best looking Teal Paint job on it I have ever seen...

That company should be asked if they check the condition of the ball joints and things like that.. if they don't then ask what they charge to include that.. or find another company...That is an easy check... I used to work as a mechanic and then service writer at a front end shop...
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2005, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang
I did not say " the report of the actual condition" ... I mean the Actual Condition... however checked... and I just think unless he has some MB guy who is not involved moneywise in the transaction that he as a new to automobile buying guy needs some experienced mechanical people to look at it..
Now, your being idealistic. When you hire one of these "independent appraisal companies" you get a report of the condition of the vehicle. If you put all your eggs in that basket, and believe that the report of the actual conditon is the actual condition, because the "independent appraiser" says so, then you are being foolish, IMHO.

The report gives you a basis for judging the value of the vehicle and whether to pursue it further. It is certainly not going to tell you how much money you will invest in the next five years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leathermang

That company should be asked if they check the condition of the ball joints and things like that.. if they don't then ask what they charge to include that.. or find another company...That is an easy check...
Do you honestly believe that a person with little knowledge of M/B automobiles can properly select an independent appraiser by asking specific technical questions over the telephone? Come on, Greg. Idealistic and unrealistic.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 01-17-2005 at 05:23 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2005, 05:29 PM
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It is his FIRST car... I assume he has few or no tools, So I am playing the odds that some professional INdependant car mechanical checker company will be able to do a better job than HE can.....
Plus.. I never said they could forecast five years out his future mechanical needs... just the present condition of the car BETTER than he can.. and hopefully more trustworthily than his mechanic ( financial incentive ), or the seller....(same)

I want to apologize for some of the sentence construction I have used in this thread... not easy to follow...
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2005, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang
It is his FIRST car... I assume he has few or no tools, So I am playing the odds that some professional INdependant car mechanical checker company will be able to do a better job than HE can.....
Plus.. I never said they could forecast five years out his future mechanical needs... just the present condition of the car BETTER than he can.. and hopefully more trustworthily than his mechanic ( financial incentive ), or the seller....(same)

I want to apologize for some of the sentence construction I have used in this thread... not easy to follow...
I can follow it just fine. The issue we are discussing is not whether a independent mechanical appraiser would be beneficial for a individual to utilize before purchasing a vehicle. We agree that this is valuable.

The issue is whether this report, as provided by the independent mechanical appraiser can be relied upon as the defacto condition of the vehicle and that any maintenance history that may be obtained from the prior owner is not beneficial for predicting future repairs.

I'm reminding you that your original statement discounted the benefit of a maintenance history and suggested that the current condition of the vehicle is all that matters. Because it is effectively impossible to obtain the current, complete, and truthful condition of the vehicle, the maintenance history can be used, in conjunction with the appraisal, to provide insight as to the future repairs that will be required.

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