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  #1  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:30 PM
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Lost number one cylinder at idle

Over the past few weeks my idle and starting has gotten worse with more and more smoke. Last Thursday, no start so I replaced glow plugs and the car starts pretty well but same rough idle and smoke. Isolated problem to #1 cylinder by cracking lines - other cylinders produce substantial drop in idle but #1 makes no difference. Fuel does spurt out of line when its cracked. Injector was leaking between two halves so I replaced it today. No change. Maybe the valves are tight. Sure enough, I adjusted the valves incorrectly a month ago and all of the valves were so tight I couldn't get a gauge in place using warm adjust spec (car was warm). Adjusted to spec and no change on #1 cylinder - not firing at all at idle. I tried adjusting the nozzle at the injector pump by loosening the two nuts and rotating the line but no difference. What next? Compression test? Car runs great above idle with 27 mpg and good power.

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Rich Mason
Chapel Hill, NC
1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:37 PM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMason
Over the past few weeks my idle and starting has gotten worse with more and more smoke. Last Thursday, no start so I replaced glow plugs and the car starts pretty well but same rough idle and smoke. Isolated problem to #1 cylinder by cracking lines - other cylinders produce substantial drop in idle but #1 makes no difference. Fuel does spurt out of line when its cracked. Injector was leaking between two halves so I replaced it today. No change. Maybe the valves are tight. Sure enough, I adjusted the valves incorrectly a month ago and all of the valves were so tight I couldn't get a gauge in place using warm adjust spec (car was warm). Adjusted to spec and no change on #1 cylinder - not firing at all at idle. I tried adjusting the nozzle at the injector pump by loosening the two nuts and rotating the line but no difference. What next? Compression test? Car runs great above idle with 27 mpg and good power.
check the valve clearnace cold............

And I hope you didn't mess with the nuts on the injector pump that the injector lines attach to. IF you did you just screwed up the IP callibration.
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1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:41 PM
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Zen And The Art Of Diesel
 
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I was just thinking, a bum injection pump *could* do that, but it's kind of odd.. And check valves cold. Otherwise, a very low compression cylinder will not fire at idle, but will at speed.




Did you not just buy this car off e-bay Rich? Sure hope some serious problem is not turning up.

It's amazing what a diesel will have and do and live with and still perform.
Guess that's why we love them so much..
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:45 PM
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I'm going to check the valve clearance again. My dad has a Mercedes shop in Georgia and he taught me about taking those nuts a little loose and moving the fuel line to the left or right to balance out the fuel flow between the cylinders to smooth out a rough idle. I returned the plate that the nuts hold down to the original position, which I scribed before I loosened them. I have seen this adjustment produce good results in the past so I'm surprised at the strong opposition touching those nuts produces in some board members. Of course, for other reasons I prefer the forum's input to my father's so I certainly respect your views.
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Chapel Hill, NC
1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:48 PM
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Wolf, Yes I bought it off ebay but I drove it beforehand and it idled well then with much less smoke than now. Of course, it could have been on the way out and I didn't notice it. Next time a compression test will be mandatory for a car with no service records. More info after valve adjust tomorrow before work - should be 18 degrees or so. Perfect for wrenching!
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Chapel Hill, NC
1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:50 PM
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The 5cyl in my 300D would fit right in there..
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  #7  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMason
I'm going to check the valve clearance again. My dad has a Mercedes shop in Georgia and he taught me about taking those nuts a little loose and moving the fuel line to the left or right to balance out the fuel flow between the cylinders to smooth out a rough idle. I returned the plate that the nuts hold down to the original position, which I scribed before I loosened them. I have seen this adjustment produce good results in the past so I'm surprised at the strong opposition touching those nuts produces in some board members. Of course, for other reasons I prefer the forum's input to my father's so I certainly respect your views.
Well adversion to doing that is becasue it can upset the calibration of the IP and that will cost you about $500 to recalibrate from what WHunter has told me.


Without a bench I think the chance of making it worse is far greater than making it better. But thats just my opinion. And if I am wrong I know there will be more than a few who will corect me.
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2005, 08:57 PM
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For the record, I wasn't correcting, just sharing my limited experience.

Wolf, I've got to get some pictures to you. I confess I've been toying with the idea of a TDI conversion for my 240 if and when the need arises...should get better mileage although it would run at least 4 grand. I don't want to hijack my own thread though. Could anything in the prechambers cause my problem? Could I have burned/bent a valve with them so tight? Like an idiot I adjusted them using the distance between the valve cap and the rocker instead of the rocker and cam.
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1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2005, 09:03 PM
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Zen And The Art Of Diesel
 
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TDI's are pretty impressive, but the cost and electric natue has kept me away from them. Still though..


If the valves were way tight, could have burned one. Hot exhaust gasses creaping by a not-sealed valve, valve seat and face burning away, it's possible. Another thing you'll notice is it takes as much as a hundred miles for things to "settle in" after a valve adjustment. Strange but true. Might run a tank of fuel through her and see what happens before delving further.

Do send photos...
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2005, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMason
Wolf, Yes I bought it off ebay but I drove it beforehand and it idled well then with much less smoke than now. Of course, it could have been on the way out and I didn't notice it. Next time a compression test will be mandatory for a car with no service records. More info after valve adjust tomorrow before work - should be 18 degrees or so. Perfect for wrenching!
Where you at? ....you need to chage your profile under User CP to show it.

I ask becasue 18 degres is what it is here................
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2005, 09:07 PM
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Bone,

I'm in Chapel Hill, NC. Its in my signature. I'll add it to the top as well.
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Rich Mason
Chapel Hill, NC
1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2005, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMason
Bone,

I'm in Chapel Hill, NC. Its in my signature. I'll add it to the top as well.
Sorry I missed that.......I know thats frigid weather for you guys......
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:27 AM
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still not firing...

I adjusted the valves cold this morning. All of the intakes were tight, including #1. After the adjustment, there was no change. #1 is not firing at idle although it runs ok once moving. Where do I go from here?
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Rich Mason
Chapel Hill, NC
1990 300D 285k miles
1993 VW Cabriolet converted to 1.6 TD
1985 VW Westfalia 1.6 TD
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMason
I adjusted the valves cold this morning. All of the intakes were tight, including #1. After the adjustment, there was no change. #1 is not firing at idle although it runs ok once moving. Where do I go from here?

I would recomend a compression test first.....then I would look into haveing the injectors tested.
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:29 AM
Old Deis
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For $10 you could run some diesel purge through it. I know we do not like trying everything that is put on the table, but a course of diesel purge is a good annual treatment for all of these cars. However a persistant idle miss is always the most annoying part of owning some of the rides here.

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