Hairballs in the airfilter housing??????

[jassz]

I think we may have acquired a car that should be reported to social services for neglect.

I'll try not to repeat my story too much (there was another thread on this car), but in a nutshell:
1. We bought a 1981 300TD with 275,000 miles on it.
2. Then we bought another 81 300TD with half the mileage on it, hoping to use it as a parts car for the first one. This car failed emission testing (blows quite a bit of smoke), has low compression testing, but still has a great deal of power and acceleration. There is a whole other thread on how/why that could be. We are hoping that there isn't something really seriously wrong with the motor and that it might breathe some life back in to our first car (which has a much better chassis).

So, my husband is in the middle of adjusting the valve clearances (Thankyou Thomasspin!). They were WWWAAAAAY out, so hopefully having that done will give some improvement.

But, along the way we discovered that there is all this 'stuff' in the airfilter housing. I'll post a few pics (sorry I can't do it all in one post I dont' think). Do you think that this could be the result of much too infrequent oil changes? Some of it almost looks like shale, but it's softer. The weirdest thing was this ball of.... well, it looks like hair. At first I thought it was steel wool (maybe left behind when cleanign something?), but when you touch it it feels like something the cat might cough up.

In light of this, do you have any recommendations on what to do next? An engine flush?? A dose of hairball medication??

[jassz]

Another pic..

[jassz]

And another pic..

Oh, one other comment about what we've observed... the cams look in good shape.

Those are nasty looking hair balls, I have never found hair balls, but I did find some snails in my air cleaner once . You might have had an animals nest of some kind in there, or an animal lived in the engine compartment and the hair got into the air cleaner.

As for an engine flush, take the car on a 20 miles drive, then change the oil hot, just don't change the filter this time. Fill it with oil , and drive it for a couple of hundered miles and change the oil again hot, and change the filter this time. Doing this should do a good job of flushing out the engine. Oh, you might also want to replace the breather hose, this will reduce the ammount of oil in the air cleaner. Make sure it is the updated model.

[JimSmith]

Jassz,

What did the air cleaner element itself look like? When you say the valves were way out of adjustment, what were they, tight or loose?

Rodents like to take up residence in cars, and when they nest they bring stuff into the area with them.

The oil in there likely comes from the breather hose connection to the valve cover. Based on your description of the blow-by on the car, I would suspect the combination of conditions (rodent nest, possibly clogged air filter, bad valve lash) is resulting in a partial vacuum sucking the oil into the aircleaner housing.

Jim

[jassz]

I never thought of an animal making a nest in there! Yikes! It has pretty low mileage for the year, so maybe it was parked for awhile.

Jim, the first three valves were too tight (the first two EXTREMELY tight). The last two were okay. Oddly enough that doesn't really jive with the compression testing as the last one (which didn't need adjusting) had a very low reading.

The air filter itself was covered it oil. Looked like it had been sprayed with it. Another observation we made was that the drain line down from the air filter housing to the oil pan was completely dry. Given the amount of oil in the air filter housing, I assume there must be a plug somewhere. We haven't cleaned the air filter housing yet (that's my job ) so maybe the oil separator valve is plugged?

Good thought on it making a vacuum, that makes sense.

123c, can you define 'updated' breather hose? Was it made after a certain year?

Thanks again guys!

Originally posted by jassz
123c, can you define 'updated' breather hose? Was it made after a certain year?

I don't know a whole lot about it, other than they redesigned it so there would be less blow by.

[ewstan]

I discovered chunks chewed from the outside of the air filter on my '87 300D after it hadn't been driven for a few weeks. Assumed that a hungry rodent had found its way through the air intake to the filter housing.

ewstan

[psfred]

Sounds like the oil separator is plugged, probably by more scaley stuff.

This is a cyclonic separator -- the gases from the engine swirl around, causing the oil to fly onto the sides of the separator, make a film, and drain down into the crankcase. If the drain is plugged up, all the blowby blows out into the air filter housing. Check the outlet for the gasses -- points down the intake -- for plugs.

I'd also check the chain from stretch (do a search for details) -- basically, line up the mark on the cam or the notch in the thrust washer with the mark on the front cam tower, then read the degree mark on the crank balancer. More than 8 degrees ATDC, and you need a new chain.

What's wrong with the engine in TD #1?

Peter

[jassz]

The chain appears to be stretched 5 degrees. Marginal?

What's wrong with the engine in TD #1?

The short answer is: Maybe nothing.

The long answer:
We bought the car about 2 weeks ago. We had a mechanical inspection at the time that (not surprisingly) revealed a few problems. The compression testing showed one readings slightly low, but the mechanic thought that could perhaps be fixed with a valve adjustment. Even if it didn't fix it, she has said she has seen these 'marginal' motors run for years. It is not blowing smoke excessively, but it's not as powerful as it probably should be. There were a few other things, like a leaking self leveling strut and a break in the exhaust, but, given the condition of the interior, and the condition of the chassis, we decided the car was worth the price. The chassis does need some work, but how much we do will depend on what we think the lifespan of the car will be.

I didn't go looking for a second car, but rather it kind of fell in to my lap when I was looking to see if anyone was parting their car out. It is exact same year/make/model as the first one, but has half the mileage (and way more rust). The previous owner was driving it quite a distance every day, when one day it started smoking badly. It failed emission testing, so he took it to his mechanic who did compression testing and told him the motor was shot. We did not even drive the car before deciding that the parts we could salvage off the car were more than worth the price (muffler, tires, struts, battery, transmission etc etc). We expected to have the car barely limp home, but to our surprise it had a great deal of power and acceleration. That gave us some hope that perhaps the motor wasn't totally shot after all, and that if it turns out to be in better shape than what we have in the first car, we would switch. Over the past few days, the power in the first car is really waning.

We bought the first car hoping to get a few more years out of it. If there is a chance that we can get a LOT more years out of it so much the better.

Aren't you sorry you asked?

[psfred]

Natalie:

Just make sure you don't violate the laws agains suburban junk yards.....

It looks like you have an oil separator problem with engine #2, expecially if it suddenly appears. You certainly have way too much oil in the air cleaner.

As far as car #1 goes, have you changed the fuel filters yet? Dirty filters will GREATLY reduce the power, completely eliminate smoke, and eventually prevent you driving the car. I'd get the valves adjusted and have a leakdown test done before deciding the engine was "shot" -- if the cylinder walls are worn the the point compression is dropping badly, the chances that you AREN'T using excessive oil is about nil.

The leakdown test is done by applying compressed air to the cylinder with the piston at top dead center. Any air leaking out can be heard hissing, and the location of the leak will tell you what is worn out -- if the intake hisses, the intake valve isn't seating, if the exhaust hisses, the exhaust valve is isn't seating, and if the crankcase hisses, the rings are leaking and worn out.

The #1 engine may only need new fuel filters and a new timing chain, valve job, and cleanup!

Check inside the valve cover on #2 and make sure the pipe along the top of the cover is still there, also. This pipe is there to keep the majority of the oil in the engine, it shields the blowby tube from the oil flying off the cam.

Peter

[dabenz]

I had fur in a pickup engine air cleaner. Came from the cat that was dozing in the fan cowling when I started it (thunk, ROWWR, thunk, ROWWR, shut off engine, silence). The retarded cat lived, but it was a nine minus seven kind of day for it.

[jassz]

I'd get the valves adjusted and have a leakdown test done before deciding the engine was "shot" -- if the cylinder walls are worn the the point compression is dropping badly, the chances that you AREN'T using excessive oil is about nil.

Hmmm, interesting you should mention the leak down test. When I booked the appt for the inspection, I was told that compression testing included a leak down test. I'm not sure if it was done or not. No news is good news? I'll phone them tomorrow and ask. The translucent fuel filter (I guess it's the secondary filter) in TD #1 LOOKS good (unlike car #2, which looked terrible).

So... to update, my husband did the valve adjustment on car #2, then immediately ran out of gas when trying to start it. He put some fuel in, but it still wouldn't start. He was pretty sure he had done something wrong with the valve adjustment, but I was like a parrot in the background saying, "Pok, change the fuel filters, pok" Finally, about 3 oclock, I went out and bought them, and he changed them. (I think there was also some air in the lines). It started, but there really isn't any improvement. STill idles very rough, and billows blue smoke. Doesn't seem like all cylinders are working.

Check inside the valve cover on #2 and make sure the pipe along the top of the cover is still there, also. This pipe is there to keep the majority of the oil in the engine, it shields the blowby tube from the oil flying off the cam.

Would you happen to have a picture of the pipe you are talking about?

BTW, I cleaned the airfilter housing and the oil separator valve. It wasn't plugged, but I think maybe the drain line was not connected (it's shaking pretty good). There was a leak underneath the car, and it seemed about that spot.

Not sure what to do next. We may have to call in reinforcements.

[psfred]

Lots of blue smoke is usually burning oil, probably blowby in your case, given all the oil in the air cleaner housing.

The pipe is pretty obvious, attached to the top of the valve cover. It you just have a hole there, you may be getting oil slung off the cam directly into the blowby hose, but I'm not completely sure, I don't have that model 617 engine.

The 0-rings that seal the oil retun pipe are most likely gone by now, so the oil runs out onto the ground rather than into the crankcase.

I'd have the leakdown done on engine #1 -- if it doesn't burn oil, likely it isn't worn out. Low compression is much more likely to be from bad valves, especially if they were all tight when you adjusted them.

Late valve and injection timing from a stretched chain will also greatly deduce power. 5 degrees is OK, but only just. If you keep the engine, plan on a replacement soon.

Peter

Peter

That air cleaner housing looks a lot like the one on a parts car I got a few months ago. Oily as anything I had ever seen. But then I checked the engine itself and it was a very strong runner, with very little blowby.
I think this can be a maintenence problem. I also noticed there was a lot of oil on the oil filter housing. Looks like the oil filter was changed sometimes without sealing it up correctly.
Still didn't wreck the engine, just not a pretty sight. It can be had to correctly diagnose the sort of problems you present here. A rough running engine with clouds of blue smoke? Is it oil burning there? Probably, but where did that oil come from? It could be the engine is not venting correctly and oil has built up inside the air intake or the cylinders and all over the place. It may clean up with better care.
Or is could be a real oil burner and the engine is just shot. What I am saying here is it takes some testing and sorting to locate the problem. But then you already knew that!