I used to have just one MB diesel, and then I bought another 2 at the same time. That really forced me to learn to work on these cars myself otherwise I'd be broke by now. Even if you have just one car, it's much better to learn to fix it yourself unless you're one of those types whose hands just break anything they touch. I haven't been to a mechanic in the last 2 years and saved thousands of dollars.

From my experience with mechanics, I've found that most indies are scamers or are incompetent and dealerships generally are not willing to work on old cars because they specialize in warranty issues with new cars and don't know much about the old cars.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

You can DIY to a point. At some point, you won't have the tools to do it. If you saved thousands of dollars in 2 years, you need a better car. There are many things I can do but some I cannot. I cannot time an injector pump seeing as I would have to buy a tool, learn how to use it and all for a one time use. Same as with a rear end. I am not going to buy the tools, learn the technique and do it one time in 20 years. I send my car out for EPROM tuning. I could buy the equipment, learn and experiment with it, possibly blow my engine and all for what? I have had my vette dyno tuned for $450 a time. Done that 1 times in 15 years. Other times I have taken readings and sent it out for a couple hundred a time. That I have done twice. Is it worth the effort and cost of equipment? I can't justify it. Now, a timing light, I can see. I use it more often and for other cars.

Why would dealerships specialize in warranty work? AFAIK, warranty repairs pay less than non-warranty repairs. Problem with older cars is that they are different. Now, in a perfect world, a GM tech will be trained on everything GM. However, that is not going to be the case. The cost would be prohibitive. So they train on the stuff that people tend to bring in. America being a disposable society, tends to dump older stuff for newer. You want to go against the grain with the older stuff. Would you cater to a customer like you, if you were making the decisions or would you cater to the 10 others who go along with the grain?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Obviously, the reason for changing all the glow plugs is that this is what people do with SPARK plugs, and they do this because spark plugs are cheap.

Glow plugs are not as cheap, since they are often refurbished. A glow plug does just as the name implies: it glows and heats the cylinder prior to starting the car, thus enabling compression ignition more readily.

Unlike the spark plug, once the motor is running, the glow plug becomes as irrelevent to the combustion process as the landing gear after take-off.

So it seems logical to me to replace them if they don't glow, and return them to service if they do glow, thus rewarding the owner with a lesser cas outlay.

To the shop, of course, replacing the whole shebang makes sense, because they get to buy the things wholesale and sell them retail, and if you replace them ALL, future malfunctions cannot be laid at the feet of the shop like a whacking large rotting albatross.

__________________
Semibodacious Transmogrifications a Specialty

1990 300D 2.5 Turbo sedan 171K (Rudolf)
1985 300D Turbo TD Wagon 219K (Remuda)

"Time flies like and arrow, yet fruit flies like a banana"
---Marx (Groucho)

makes sense to me. when I was younger, I figured everyone should constantly stick their neck out for everyone else all the time, but I learned. I suppose if I was wrenching for a living, I would feel like a lot of guys and "just replace the whole thing". But then, that's not interesting or fun for me, which is why I do it for a hobby, and that's it.

__________________
'82 300SD - 361K mi - "Blue"

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

listen, look, .........and duck.

Like the spark plug, the all have the same wear on them. Glow one, glow all.

True. However, when I pay 2 hrs to take off my manifold to change 2 GPs and later on 1 more fails, fix that, one more fails later on, who pays for the other R&R of the intake manifold? Where is the savings then?

I would say that it makes mroe sense for them to replace the broken ones. Seeing as how you will be back to pay for the R&R of the parts again when the next one fails.

Now, if one fails after 2000 miles of use, i would say that we could get away with replacing that one. But if I had 1 that failed after 80K on the clock, what if the rest of them fail one by one? Woudl you pay to do the same job again and again?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I only change them if they won't glow if I connect them accross a battery. The test does not take very long.

__________________
Jim

Well a lot of times, and almost all the time with the older cars, any tool that you may need will be a lot cheaper than paying someone to do the labor even once. Oh and I have saved thousands of dollars in 2 years not because I need a better car but because this is for a total of 3 cars and a lot of preventive maintenance, and I wouldn't trade these cars for anything.

About the glow plugs, they are like light bulbs. Either they glow or they don't and sometimes they are bad right out of the box. Unless they are rusty or cracked replacing them as routine maintenance is likely a waste of money.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

OK, that makes sense now when you say it is for 3 cars. I suppose that with the older cars, that may be true. The newer cars require too many electronic things and I can't be bothered to learn how to do it and buy the tool if I am only going to do it once. Easier to pay someone to do it. Not to mention that I would end up with a bunch of tools and have to store them. Besides, for $30 an hour, why do I want to spend my time learning the tool, buying the tool, using the tool and then storing it for who knows how long before something will come up and I need it again. I only keep tools I feel I am going to use often.

As to glow plugs, I don't feel they should be done just because. However, if one is shot and I DIY, it would cost me a few hours of my time and a intake manifold gasket. In any case, with a 606 motor, I would want to take all the plugs out and reinsert with fresh anti-sieze. All it costs me is the parts. Will it be 1 glow plug or change the lot. I had 65 K on the clock and I changed all but one because I didn't have all 6 new plugs. All worked fine. Next week, guess what I was doing again. Fortunately, i managed to get at it without having to take the intake manifold off again.

Bottom line is what is more valuable. Do you have the time to spend wrenching or do you want to do it once and forget about it for another 60K miles. Either way will not gaurantee that you won't have to take it out again next week but replacing the lot will better your odds.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Most of the proponents of changing all glow plugs have engines which require inlet manifold removal to allow GP replacement. In that case, obviously, it IS cheaper to replace all or the GP which require the manifold removal.

On the OM616/617 engines, where GP removal is easier than filter changes, it makes sense to replace the faulty GPs only.

Different engine, different GP replacement philosophy.

__________________
Tony from West Oz.
Fatmobile 3 84 300D 295kkm Silver grey/Blue int. 2 tank WVO - Recipient of TurboDesel engine.
Josephine '82 300D 390kkm White/Palamino int.
Elizabeth '81 280E, sporting a '79 300D engine.
Lucille '87 W124 300D non-turbo 6 cylinder OM603, Pearl Grey with light grey interior


Various parts cars including 280E, 230C & 300D in various states of disassembly.