Just speculating here but if we can sell it (different oil from different regions have different properties and maybe someone wants that specific one) at say $55 a barrel and buy it at $54 a barrel, it might make sense?

At close to $4 a gal, I'd hardly consider biodiesel an alternative, would you?Last time I checked B100 was over $3.75 a gal and diesel was about $1.99 a gal. How is that an alternative? An expensive option, yes. Now, if they can get it to within say a few cents of regular diesel without any gimicks and add some anti-gel stuff that keeps it stable to the level of regular diesel, that would be an alternative and one I would buy into.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Look no one is ever going to directly force somebody to get rid of his or her gas guzzler. But with $4 a gallon, most SUV and pickup owners will have to take a hard look at their fuel consumption and decide whether it's worth to keep their vehicles. I think in the end this will be good because these vehicles will finally be used for what they were intended: hauling cargo or off roading. I see far too many Ford Super Duties and such vehicles with only one or two people inside just cruising in the city, going to the mall or idling in a drive-thru for a long time.

I already told you B2 will not give you better fuel economy. In fact not even B100 will. That is not the purpose of biodiesel. The purpose of biodiesel is to provide better lubrication, vastly lower emissions, and to be an alternative fuel that doesn't have to be imported and can support the local economy.

I'm not sure if this country could grow enough biodiesel for all its diesel vehicles, but I know we can do a lot better. Europe has many more diesel vehicles, yet biodiesel is quite easy to find over there. For example, last I heard France has B5 at every diesel station and it's not uncommon to find B30 throughout the Czech Republic. As diesels become more popular in the US and the demand for biodiesel continues to grow as it has over the past few years, I'm optimistic biodiesel will become increasingly more available, and with increasing petrolleum prices, even B100 may one day be cheaper than diesel.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Perhaps so. But like a nuke, it will take out more than just that one spot. If it goes to $4 a gal, maybe some of the SUV and truck owners would be hurt. HOWEVER, so would the rest of us who drive cars. People hoping that would happen are the ones that would make it easier for the prices to go up either by the oil companies or the government taxes. It would be easier to ram down a price increase if the public was more accepting because they think it will get rid of a problem. IOW, to get this "good thing" you speak of, many others migh have to suffer too. Kinda like a "Cut the face to spite the nose" thing. I don't know but once Hitler got to show the German population that the Jew was evil and the cause of problems, it became much easier to send troops to round them up into concentration camps. Do you think that might happen to our case? I don't know.

So far, B2 goes 1 mpg LESS than regular diesel. Maybe it is that shop only but until I can get my hands on another supplier, that is all I have to base my opinion on. I'd like a few more suppliers so I can run a test on all of them to see whether it is just that one or others. I know that Woodman's sells diesel that SUCKS. Car feels more sluggish and mpg goes down. That is regular diesel. The only reason I am continuing with the B2 experiment is that the only other station within 5 miles that sells gas the cheapest is next to this Cenex station that sells B2 and is selling B2 for the same price as regular diesel. The one by my house is 10 cents more a gal. So it is worth the trip for me to do the experiments.

I don't know if diesel will become more popular here in the US. Most poeple here don't seem to care for diesels in general. Would it be easy to overcome? Probably not. You'd have to give some massive breaks for diesel fuel for it to work. That break would have to be carried by everyone else who isn't into diesels since if you give a tax break somewhere, it has to be made up elsewhere. That I am against. If biodiesel is going to work, it has to stand for itself and not be borne on the backs of others. Like I said before, the only reason I went diesel is the 20-25% increase in mileage since the wife was doing a lot of out of town driving. In town, I know that given my druthers, I'd take the gas cars. Now, if B100 can be a true alternative (ie, very slight difference between it and petrodiesel) and be cheaper without gimmicks like tax cuts and what not, I would go for it.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Don't forget that gas and diesel are subsidized, biodiesel is not. It is the petro-based fuel that is borne on the backs of others. So is beef. I don't like subsidies at all and I firmly believe in free and fair market.

Diesels are clearly getting more popular in the US, that's a fact. One good example is the Jeep Liberty CDI. The demand for it is much higher than what Daimler-Chrysler expected, and I think to a lower extent the same is true for the MB 320CDI. I like the VW TDI's and I'm considering to buy one.

You can say people get "hurt" when gas prices go up, but I think people just whine too much and are spoiled. They don't really get hurt, they may just have to adjust their wasteful lifestyles. Europeans pay twice as much for their gas, and I don't see them grieving and suffering, they just adapt, for example by using public transportation more and buying more fuel-efficient cars. The Hitler thing is a bad analogy, though I see your point. The truth is, our government doesn't just pick gas prices out of a hat, it's mainly based on global supply and demand. If people mind increasing fuel prices, they would actually do good by using less fuel (my suggestion) and thus help keep prices under control.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Without getting into an argument about petro molecules, I am just glad that I have a diesel. If indeed there ever was a catastrophic cut in supply, we diesel drivers have options. This is contrary to gas gusslers.

Case in point, after Hurricane Jean, parts of Florida had a one weekend fuel shortage - many gasoline pumps were shutdown with panicked drivers driving around like the world was coming to an end. Saw this back in 73,'79. I just pulled up to my local station and filled up with diesel. Hypothetically, even if there was limited diesel for passenger cars, I could find bio products and mods to keep me going. Yea I would cut back driving, but I would not go to sleep at nite thinking where I will get fuel the next day. That's BS

Did that in the 70's and I vowed never to do that and wait in 5AM, 50 car long gas lines ever again.

I do feel sorry for those guys who have to commute long distances. Just remember if it ever gets bad, you can do what I did in CT back in the 79. I charged carpoolers big bucks to give them a commuter ride. And they gladly paid.

Fox is fair and neutral. To the multinational corporations and the administration.
I like news which is fair and neutral to the public.

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Think Alternative Energy!
300CD '80 (now gone but not forgotten...)

I'm curious as to how diesel and gas are subsidised. Not saying they aren't but just not sure how. I know that biodiesel gets a tax break to make it competitive. I'm with you on the free market thing tho.

As to it getting more popular, we will see. It might just be a phase like the Dodge Viper that was once a "must have" to the point that when it first came up the sticker price was much higher than the MSRP or the Volkswagen Bug where the waiting list was over a year.

You do realize that if I adjust my lifestyle and go out less because I have to spend more in my daily routines like going to work, I will spend less elsewhere. So when I go out in my SUV, I buy gas, snacks, etc, etc and other stuff to go with the trip. When I get there, I get lodgings and more food, souvenirs, etc, etc. Less to spend on a trip means less to spend elsewhere too. Other industries will hurt as well. So yes, I will adjust and so will others but what is the side effect.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Looks like Iran is using the oil card to get Europe and the US to back off:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12461201^2703,00.html

This should be interesting. Look for a lot of folks to go for that backyard swimming pool and vacation at home this year. Ummm note to self: check out Pool Company stocks....

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Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

I'm pro fossil fuel as well. What's wrong with that? So what I have no social conscience, I choose the cheapest fuel that gets the job done, only taking into account me and my personal gain from not spending more on a fuel I don’t really need. I've gotten into debates about this before, and frankly this "drastic climate change" argument is false. Over the last 100 years we've had...what .6*C change. The average temperature of the earth now is almost 4*C less than it was during the hypsithermal, and humans existed then. The fact is, no legitimate data suggests that the rate of change of temperature of the earth is changing for the worse. These 10 degree's in 10 year claims are entirely bogus. All measurements show that major pollutants are either on the decline or increasing at a slower rate than they were, I know this ecological disaster mumbo jumbo makes for entertaining movies, but it's simply NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

That said, as I've said before... My car smokes less on certain BD mixes and it seems to run better. That's worth the extra 20-30 cents a gallon every other tank. However, many people who drive can not rationalize spending more on fuel or don't have the time to go dumpster diving for old oil, don't condemn them for that.

As for subsidies...since you don't like them, lets also get rid of the wind and solar subsidies, see how quickly the earth heats up when people realize without a government kick back there's no reason to use those technologies.


Maybe I'll have to get another car if my old 240d dies...I was actually thinking of going Old volvo squareback and covering it with a vomit of other people's thoughts condensed into quirky, attention craving bumperstickers. Ooh! Look at me! I know what "Nepal" means! Namaste! I'm so ****ing spiritual and wordly! Kill me now!

Oh oh oh and Whole Foods is selling a Patchouli air freshener! It's great for aligning my chakras on the way to a fur protest or a Churchill speech. The gas mileage is sort of crappy, but it's only a couple miles each way to pick up my monthly trust fund check, and I can always take my boyfriend's Tundra. That's a nice car, built of half Japanese and half Dixie parts, and doesn't give any money to the little Eichmanns in New York.

Cheers,
Nate

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'82 240D, 4-speed, 617 turbo engine

Not sure what you are trying to say Cannonball but as far as the solar and wind subsidies go, I'm all for research. However, after so many years of it, and end has to be in sight. Either it will fly or it won't. If it won't, time for it to go. Just like a kid. You wouldn't want your son or daughter to just sit home all day long and not do anything, would you? After they are so old, I'm sure you would toss them out and say "Your turn at bat." or would you just keep them fed, clothed and a roof over their head and some spending money if they didn't want to do anything for it?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

If you don't care about our opinions, what makes you think we care about yours?

-sam

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"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Check out the documentary "Outfoxed" that might be of interest to you. In the James Bond movie "Tomorrow Never Dies" they used the figure of Rupert Murdock (the owner of News Inc. and FOX ) as the evil arch enemy....maybe they were hinting at something.

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1974 240D 3.0L 4(M) - 250K -OM617.910 + 300D FW + Rajay turbo power!
1977 6.9 3(A) - 84k

..subsidies... Some people are saying "ohh I hate all subsidies, for oil, for crops, for everything." and then the same people (not on here, I don't know you all, but in my experience, and from those expereinces I can infer that people on here might feel the same way) are all about the wind/solar subsidies helping them "get off the ground", when we run out of coal, oil, natural gas, steam from the earth, water and uranium then maybe solar and wind will be economically feasible, until then, let the economy run it's course. It is not in the best interest for any company to destroy the world and if that is inevitable then things will be done to stop it, don't worry, don't try to force your ideals on others.
-Nate

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'82 240D, 4-speed, 617 turbo engine

make up the "facts" to support your argument

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002198506_oceans06.html

Unfortunately the momentum seems to be building on the otherside. CB is just hoping that when the oceans rise Western CO will become the new coastline.

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Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

Short term subsidies may be ok, but I'm against all long-term subsidies as those just lead to inefficiency and they support something that isn't really working. The main problem with them is they force everybody to pay for something through taxes, regardless of how many people actually use the product. The biodiesel tax incentive was meant to help biodiesel compete against subsidized diesel fuel, but it's not enough to level the playing field.

CannonBall, I know the earth has its own thermal cycles, but even if we assume the recent warming is a natural cycle, the question still is do you want to add fuel to the fire? Lots of things are natural, but not all of them are good. If there's a lightning-triggered fire close to your home, are you gonna go out into the forest and pour gasoline on it? My guess is you won't. Then why do you want to pump a bunch of CO2 into the atmosphere to accelerate the current global warming process? It is a fact that CO2 is a heat-trapping gas. You also have to realize that today there are way more people living on this planet than during the stone age. Even small increases in global temperatures can lead to massive disasters.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL