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  #1  
Old 03-20-2005, 05:47 PM
JimmyL's Avatar
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Timing chain mark

In another thread Peter theorized I may have chain elongation combined with the jumping of a tooth, possibly during my first valve adjustment, which throws everything off, and viola: SMOKE.
Pull the car into the coveted wife's side of the garage, prepare to check the mark, and my pointer is nowhere to be found. "expletive" I noticed that the pointer is a replacable part, I guess pinned in place or somesuch, and mine has been left off. (which would imply past engine work)
So, how on earth do I check my chain elongation and timing situation? How do I tell if I have jumped a tooth, or am just chain-stretched beyond imagination?

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=118181&page=2

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2005, 07:38 PM
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You are going to need to find TDC of the number one piston on the compression stroke.... and get you another pointer...
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2005, 10:36 PM
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Are you POSITIVE it isn't there? The front of Marlene's engine was so nasty when I bought her, it would have been a real challenge to find the pointer. If it is in fact, missing, all you need to do is replace the missing part. Swipe the pointer off of your parts car and install it on the wagon's engine.

Here's what it looks like on my 300D (looking down with the upper radiator hose pulled out of the way):



Here's an exploded view (#14 is the timing pointer). It just bolts on:

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  #4  
Old 03-20-2005, 11:55 PM
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I looked at the pointer on the parts car, and it is just sittin' out there for all the world to see. I can't tell what is on the wagon. From the parts diagram you supplied, it almost looks like it is on there sideways???
I'll look closer at it tomorrow. What holds the pointer. Is it a bolt and also a locating pin tab, or something like that?
And Greg, I don't know a compression stroke from a back stoke, so I see a problem with your instructions. Me!
It almost looks like my pointer is sideways and tightened between engine pieces. I'll try really hard to get a picture of it. It is clean down there, just hard to get camera and light both on it. Looks NOTHING like the pointer on the other car.
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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:46 AM
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Well, in case you are not the only one...

Four stroke engines are described by the movement of the piston up or down the bore. The first stroke is down with the intake valve open. The second is compression going back up with both valves closed. The third is power with both valves closed. The fourth is exhaust with the exhaust valve open.

The crank is marked according to this sequence of the NUMBER one piston. Check manufacturer to see which they designate this as.

If you lose your placement of the crank markings then you find the compression stroke (up with both valves closed ) and either open up the head enough to measure the top of the stroke...

Or, with our engines , since the valves are located so close to the top of the piston, you can disconnect the valve from the spring and use it as an indicator...and this is the only time you are allowed to turn one of our engines backwards ( just slightly ).... because there is almost no movement of the piston top for several degrees of crank travel what you do is measure a certain distance before top and after top and mark those spots on the crank.. then the TDC mark is found by measureing ON the crank half way between those marks. This is the simplified version ... do not try this without consulting the Factory Shop Manual.
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2005, 09:38 AM
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Hey,
Here's a good link for checking timing:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=97743
And Here:
http://skinnerbox.steaky.org/Service/W123/w123CD2/Program/Engine/615/05-215.pdf

I was checking my timing yesterday. I thought I could check for the 2mm lift with a ruler. I know, I know I'm learning!
What I found is it's almost impossible to be accurate without a dial indicator.
If anyone knows where an inexpensive one can be found I would love to know!

Danny
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2005, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym
Hey,
Here's a good link for checking timing:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=97743
And Here:
http://skinnerbox.steaky.org/Service/W123/w123CD2/Program/Engine/615/05-215.pdf

I was checking my timing yesterday. I thought I could check for the 2mm lift with a ruler. I know, I know I'm learning!
What I found is it's almost impossible to be accurate without a dial indicator.
If anyone knows where an inexpensive one can be found I would love to know!

Danny
You will find cheap indicators with magnetic bases for around $15 -$20 on eBay.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2005, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyL
And Greg, I don't know a compression stroke from a back stoke, so I see a problem with your instructions. Me!
If you are that challenged maybe your better bringing the car to a good mechanic and let him sort it out. As they say in the movies "A man has to know his limitations" Sounds like you could cause some real damage playing around with chain timing.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2005, 11:02 AM
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Harbor Freight has both the magnetic holder and the dial indicator on sale now at the Austin store... and perhaps others...or online. About $6 on the indicator and not much more for the holder....fun on other projects also...
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2005, 11:39 AM
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Awesome,
Just bought the whole set for $25.

Thanks
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  #11  
Old 03-21-2005, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billrei
Sounds like you could cause some real damage playing around with chain timing.
I can cause real damage just by washing the thing!
I was given the name of a guy in Colleyville Tx., just accross town, but he is always too busy or won't call me back. I've kept trying cause a member here said he was honest and reasonable. I've spoken with him, and he DOES know these cars.
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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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Old 03-21-2005, 01:55 PM
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Jimmy

I have a 82 euro TD and it has a very "stubby" pointer just to the right of the piece of metal with the hole. I've had a bunch of 240Ds and have never seen a pointer like that which is what I think you have. I think It will point to the numbers on the balencer when you rotate the engine.
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2005, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyL
I can cause real damage just by washing the thing!
Hmmm....maybe I should make a pre-emptive, surgical strike, with bent Stahlwilles, dial indicator and feeler leaves in hand.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2005, 03:49 PM
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JimmyL,

You don't have to worry that your timing chain jumped a tooth. If it did, you would have broken something in the engine, probably the cam towers, and the engine wouldn't run.

P E H
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2005, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
Jimmy

I have a 82 euro TD and it has a very "stubby" pointer just to the right of the piece of metal with the hole. I've had a bunch of 240Ds and have never seen a pointer like that which is what I think you have. I think It will point to the numbers on the balencer when you rotate the engine.
Well, here are the best pics I could take of the pointer area. I still think I am missing the correct hardware, as there simply is no definable mark. If yall can tell by the pic, let me know. (sure is easier to see on a non-wagon. Hydraulic pump is right in the way).

**edit**
FYI, there is nothing to the right of what you see. And, in pic #3, the large bolt on the right (not the more illuminated bolt on left) is where the pointer is mounted on my parts car. Also, in pic 3, you can see the locating tab on that ring shaped thing, but there is also a post pointing up on the upper piece down there, just to the right of the left illuminated bolt.
Attached Thumbnails
Timing chain mark-timing-mark-1.jpg   Timing chain mark-timing-mark-2.jpg   Timing chain mark-timing-mark-3.jpg   Timing chain mark-timing-mark-4.jpg  

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

Last edited by JimmyL; 03-21-2005 at 09:40 PM.
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