Engine Weight for a 617.952? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#31 03-25-2005, 02:23 PM

Dang, all those numbers sure beat the heck out of my TD's 20.1 @ 71mph.

Old300D · #32 03-25-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82-300td

Dang, all those numbers sure beat the heck out of my TD's 20.1 @ 71mph.

Yeah, my '78 300D clocked 25 @ 55

240Demon · #33 03-26-2005, 12:55 AM

I will admit that I hate Hondas...mostly because of my dislike of Front Wheel Drive.

Its just that old V8's don't get me going because they are so overdone...Everyone has a smallblock in something (except me

) and there is no originality involved anymore. Whereas taking the smallblock out of a Fairmont Wagon and dropping a 2.3Turbo in it is cool cause it isnt ever done. The car runs 3 seconds quicker than it did with the V8...

Just some food for thought

Gil · #34 03-26-2005, 08:14 AM

You may be right about the SBC conversion being overdone, but that has its advantages. It's a lot easier to get a conversion right when someone else has done it before. It's also easy as can be to find low cost replacement and high performance parts for something like a SBC.

I could probably think of something more esoteric to put in the engine bay, but after owning a triumph several years back (British sports car companies - no WONDER damned near all of them went out of business), I'm at my wits end with automotive puzzles. I'm old fashioned as ever, which means I'm reduced to such mundane concepts as cars that start when they're supposed to and run without any headaches. I can live with that.

240Demon · #35 03-26-2005, 06:50 PM

Lucas Wiring

Woo Woo

#36 03-26-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil

...after owning a triumph several years back (British sports car companies - no WONDER damned near all of them went out of business), I'm at my wits end with automotive puzzles....

Hard to find? I work across the street from one.

Hit Man X · #37 03-26-2005, 09:21 PM

Wow - there is a TON of misinfo regarding the late model EFI Small Chevy.

TPI is Bank to Bank or Batch Fire EFI. Works well but not great, I'd highly look into an LT1 topend for the SEFI setup and better heads. Granted they have some problems too (Optispark and H2O pump) they make it up in power. Now if you have the green, get you an LS1. Far more power and better economy than both.

The GNX Buick was a 1987 model year only one off... that's all. The other's most recall are the 1987 Grand National. Bone stock '98+ Z28s blow them away like what I owned before I bought the C5 I had for a while. Yes, that's correct. They do have gobs of potential to go fast with the 231 and single turbo.

Regarding fuel economy... my Z28 usually got about 17mpg average (3.23:1 gears, A4). The C5 got about 25mpg average (3.15:1 gears, A4). Freeway was a different story, the Z got about 21 or so and the C5 about 28.

Hit Man X · #38 03-26-2005, 09:23 PM

That aside, there's a LOT more to GM trannies than the 700R4 and the 4L80E. As you should all know, torque kills parts not horsepower.

The 700R4 is garbage, always has been. It's a low performance unit made for vehicles with low power that some how is still around in the 4L60E. There is a HUGE change in gears from 1st to 2nd... it's a 3.06:1 then to about 1.63:1 sux. If you're used to the close ratio unit in the Benz, you're in for a BIG shock. Also, even fully prepped they are short lived. I'd push one to maybe 450rwtq at the most. No more.

The 200-4R is a far, far better trans in terms of taking input torque and overall strength. This all out, I would run to well over 650rwtq and not think twice about it. It's overall design is that much better. Not to mention the close ratio setup of it and it bolts to EVERYTHING from GM.

The 80E can run standalone WITHOUT a computer like the Baumann Controller. I picked up a Baumann Controller for an E4OD to install in my F150 here to ditch my AOD (quite possibly one of the worst trannies ever). TransGo offers a kit that allows it to run in this manner.

Hope that sheds some reality to what's available and what works...

notlostmaybe · #39 03-27-2005, 01:23 AM

Question?

would a straight 6 bmw, small or large fit a w123 without much trouble?
i like these engines and the are common here.

don

Gil · #40 03-27-2005, 01:31 AM

hit man -

So, who makes one of the 200R4 or an 80E that's built to handle high hp?
I've never even heard of those trannies, but then again, I've been out of the loop for a while.

I was hoping to use the 700R4 since it doesn't require a computer and has an overdrive. Are they really that bad?

Old300D · #41 03-27-2005, 05:32 AM

The 200-4R tranny, not coincidentally, is the tranny from the Grand National. To me, the GN engine is the single-most impressive engine to come out of US manufacturing. Add boost, fuel, and intercooling, and no n/a V8 can touch it, especially when you factor the cost of building a hot n/a engine, and the driveability loss.

Gil · #42 03-27-2005, 06:02 AM

Thanks for the tip. Is that tranny able to bolt to a SBC?

I agree that the Buick turbos were great engines, but they were powerful at the cost of long-term reliability. This isn't a knock on Buick, but high-pressure turbos in general don't last as long as normally aspirated engines. Besides, they tend to cost more money initially and can be more maintenance intensive. Not to mention there's a lot less torque at low RPMs. I'm a simple man, I like simple conversions,

Hit Man X · #43 03-27-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil

hit man -

So, who makes one of the 200R4 or an 80E that's built to handle high hp?
I've never even heard of those trannies, but then again, I've been out of the loop for a while.

I was hoping to use the 700R4 since it doesn't require a computer and has an overdrive. Are they really that bad?

You looking for an off the shelf setup or to build one local? The big name in 200-4R builds is Art Carr... his place is "Cali Performance Trans" now. His old shop name was bought up and used by some dump here in Texas.

A stock 4L80E is basically a TH400 with a 0.75:1 OD unit. In stock form it'll hold pretty much what an all out 700R4/4L60E will. Yeah, it's that strong. Just build the valve body and use good performance clutches within it and 1000rwtq in a 5000lbs truck isn't out of the question by anymeans.

To me the 700R4 seems like a good choice as it has a lower 1st gear... but I told ya about the big RPM drop between 1st and 2nd and it's awful. The 200-4R is stronger and a better overall unit. Better gearing, stronger design, etc.

It still has a lockup Torque Converter and doesn't requre a computer just like the 700R4. Both are of appx the same length and use a 27T 1330 slip yolk.

And the 200-4R bolts to everything from GM... Buick, Olds, Poncho's, Chevy, Cadillac, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

The 200-4R tranny, not coincidentally, is the tranny from the Grand National. To me, the GN engine is the single-most impressive engine to come out of US manufacturing. Add boost, fuel, and intercooling, and no n/a V8 can touch it, especially when you factor the cost of building a hot n/a engine, and the driveability loss.

Yes I know the 200 came in the GN's but it's not the ordinary one. Has a revised valve body and different servo setup. Just look for later model ones to rebuild anyway for swaps, they have better valve bodies. To me the GN specific ones aren't worth the trouble to track down with all the upgraded internals available. Billet input and output shafts, billet input drum, aluminum 2nd servo, TransGo shift kits, etc.

You really need to look at the LS1 motor from GM then. You can get 370-390rwhp easy and still slap down 24mpg on the freeway in OD with one. Not to mention run 150K mi before the motor craps out due to compression loss. Powdered metal rods, hyper slugs, and cast steel crank stock stock. I've yet to see a broken crank at 750rwhp on those.

Boost is nice but you will always have to deal with turbo lag or a big stall converter to compensate.

Gil · #44 05-06-2005, 02:30 PM

Hit man -

Thanks, I went and checked out some of the LS1 offerings online, and then some. I even took a look at the new 500hp LS7 that's coming out in the '06 'vette. Yes, that engine will be available for sale through GM directly, though the price is not yet listed (probably at least 10k). Unfortunately, it won't be available till around November. They probably want to make sure the new 'vette hits the street before the engines are available separately.

One big thing keeping me from factory engines, though is the comparatively short warranty period. GM only warrants their new engines for 1yr/12k miles, including the LS1 and the new LS7. Many of the custom shops are offering crate engines with warranties twice as long -and more horsepower. Check out some of Bill Mitchell's products: http://www.theengineshop.com

I'll let you know how it goes when this thing gets rolling.

Hit Man X · #45 05-06-2005, 04:35 PM

You're better off getting a used pull out motor versus a GMPP motor. The late '01s don't seem to have the oil tension ring problems as bad. A 6.0 iron block (they make nearly 280rwhp stock with a tune) for the low compression version can be had for around $1100-1400 with sub 35000 miles if you search. Only down side is a few hundred pounds over the alu block.

Bill Mitchell does some crazy stuff!

Do keep us posted, I'm curious...

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