300D or Passat TDI?
 

Hi all. This is my first post here, and after some research on the web I find that I still have some unanswered questions about a 1990-1995 300D. First of all, I am looking to spend about $8000 on a diesel sedan/wagon. What do you guys think is the best car for that price range? I figure I can get a low '90's 300D with low to average miles (100-150k) for that price. Now, if I go the passat route, I can get a little newer with better mileage but of course with less class. :D The Passat is nice though..

I am leaning to get the 300D, but I can't find any info on it's tow capacity. I need to tow about 2000 lbs. (trailer unbraked), not often, but maybe 3 times a summer for a couple hundred miles each trip. I did see a post somewhere that the 300D can tow 3500 lbs., but nothing "official". Is this true?

Another issue is the relative rarity of the car. Is it hard to get parts for the car? Really expensive to fix?

Last, and related to the rarity of the car, all the available cars are at least a days drive away for me, is it a big mistake to call about the obvious (repair history, number of owners, carfax), pick a good prospect and hope for the best?

Thanks in advance!

Jason

A passat tdi is only a 1.9 liter 4 cylinder 90-95 horsepower engine, I wonder how that would do trying to tow 2,000 lbs! :eek:

True, but it does have 175+/- ft. lbs. of torque.. No doubt it would be a pig, but the european specs say it is within tolerance.

For whatever reason, the North American specs say "not recommended" though same engine and tranny.

On the other hand a Passat TDI will keep up with if not outrun a 300D 2.5 from a standing start.

To me the decision will be AT vs MT. The 300D 2.5 was only available in the US with AT and the Passat only with MT.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

Passat TDI
 

The 2005 Passat TDI is a 2.0 litre 134 hp diesel engine. The engine is capable of towing, your main consideration should be the suspension to carry such a load.

But he'd have to get an older one because the new ones are going to cost way more than $8000 :D So he'd be stuck with the 1.9 engine, plus they have front wheel drive, which isn't exactly good for towing.....

Until recently, I owned a '96 Passat tdi and loved it dearly. I also own an '87 300TD, which is the same 124 chassis as your target 300D. Of the two, I'd say the 124 is best for longterm satisfaction, comfort, safety and handling. The Passat was more reliable and economical, but I don't think it would tow a load with as much power to spare or stability as the 124. FWD is a bit squirrelly with a load tied to the rear. In the final analysis, both vehicles are excellent, but I give a slight edge to the 124, but not by all that much.

Welcome. Towing a boat up North, huh? :)

MB vs Passat TDI is a tough one. FWIW, I own both a 240D and a TDI.

MB Pro's: Maintenance $ (assuming you DIY), Timing chain, Class, Rear-wheel drive while towing.
Passat TDI Pro's: Warrantee, economy, Front wheel drive when your not towing (FWD is better than RWD hands down in winter).

MB Con's: Maintenance $$$ if you don't DIY. Availability (good luck finding one in MN), do you really want a rear-wheel drive out in the country in a MN winter?
Passat Con's: Purchase price, Timing belt. Dealer service, Can't "build to order" from dealer.

Both cars have excellent "out of band" support: www.peachparts.com and www.tdiclub.com

Sorry if I haven't answered your question, but I hope that I have helped you...

- Patrick

Edit - Also, I asked the VW representative at the Minneapolis Auto Show (where I sat in a new Passat TDI) when VW was going to bring the All-Wheel-Drive Passat TDI to the US. He said, "Maybe 5 or 6 years, maybe never". Seemed like an honest guy to me, and what he said meshes well with what I've seen in the reality of choices in the diesel market in Europe versus what is available in the US.

With rising fuel costs, I would go with the one that is the most fuel efficent. Another thing to think about is how it's going to be used when not towing a boat, will it be a highway commuter, or will it be mostly driven in city traffic? Also will it be a single occupancy, or will it be multiple occupancy, if multiple, then go with the larger choice...

I believe there are two W124 diesels to consider between 90-95. One has the five cylinder 2.5L turbo and the other a 3.0 24 valve 6 cylinder.

Some info about the 95 E300D:

HP 134 @ 5000rpms
Torque 155 2200-4600
Max rpms: 5400

Owner's manual didn't mentioned towing capacity...

But found some info on this site (not sure if it's true):
http://www.mbclubcanada.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=555

How well do the tdi's handle in the snow?

Different cars.

My '91 MB 300D 2.5T is stately, classy, impeccably finished, with 121 hp and 165 lbs. of torque at 2400 rpms. It gets about 27-36 mpg and up to 500 miles per tank. It's also a bit slow off the line, but has plenty of power on the highway. The MB's also been $$$ to maintain, but looks and performs like new.

My '00 TDI Golf is well-finished, packed with air bags, with 90 hp and 155 lbs. of torque at 1900 rpms (chips or alternate injectors can bring it up to 125 hp and 200 ft. lbs.) The VW is faster off the line and has gobs of midrange torque between 60 and 90 mph. Much more fun to drive, IMO, and cheaper to maintain, despite the TBs. Also gets a steady 46 mpg LA metro traffic and up to 800 miles per tank.

The older Passats have wastegate, as opposed to variable-vane turbos, stronger LUK clutches and a range of more than 1,000 miles to the tank. The chassis is B4.

In all, the MB is a great road touring car. The VW also has great legs, but also feels steadier at higher speeds. The interior room of the 124 v. the A4 Golf (not sure about the Passat), are about the same, despite appearances. The MAF issues that have plagued some later VWs don't apply to the older Passats.

Best to check the FAQ and B4 boards at Tdiclub.com.

Good luck.

VWs are front wheel drive; with decent snows they have great traction. My NB TDI has great traction with a 5 speed std. -buddies of mine in the Pa. Mountains tell me they are great. Here in South Florida-they are great our daily summer torrential Daily rains.

I have driven 123s in the Minnesota winters without any trouble. You need good snows on all four wheels and some sand tubes in the trunk.

I had a 96 Passat TDI, it handled a Park City winter fine with Nokian Hakka's, and I lived up a fairly high hill that winter. It's a fair bit roomier than a 124, great trunk, just a really functional, economical car, and I regretted selling it days after I did. It doesn't feel anywhere near as solid or refined as a 124, though. The B4 was only a facelift of the B3, and that platform was designed in the early 80s, when VW built to a very different price point and level of build and material quality than they do today. The newest of the B4 TDI's is going on 8 years old, and the durability of the materials on that car won't compare to an 8 year old MB (or even a 12 year old 124), so be careful.