I think the fleet of existing cars is undergoing rapid change. Besides the usual attrition from accidents and rust, a lot of cars are changing hands more quickly. More of these cars are maintained by the owners now than before and this is good and bad. Good when a good dose of patience is applied before acting. Bad when well meaning owners use the cars as a means to try out fuel conversions, "performance tricks" or just general pimping. The car doesn't respond well to this, and a trip to the boneyard is right around the corner. Does anyone else wonder about this? I know I'm nuts anyway, but is it just me? wait, don't answer that one.

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'82 300SD - 361K mi - "Blue"

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

listen, look, .........and duck.

The present day prosperity which has now lasted 20 years, has encouraged people to junk their old cars and replace them with new. Furthermore there has been no gas shortage or crude oil shortage for 20 years, and that was a great impetus to diesel sales.

So you are correct, we now have a rapidly thinning stock of "classic" Mercedes diesels from the 70's and 80's which runs pretty thin when you look at the 90s.

Now if the present high price of oil continues we may see a resurgence of diesels but the technology has moved on. We will be looking at new diesel that cost $35,000,$50,000 and up, and that have all the present day "improvements" in air bags, ABS brakes, computers etc. which will make them harder on the do it yourselfer and which will also make it much harder to assure the long working life we are used to. Even if it is running perfectly, the diesel of the future will be scrapped if it needs a $3000 ABS system or computer system replacement, once the resale value slips below $3000.

So what I am saying is, if you want to assure yourself of a lifetime supply of diesel cars you can understand now is the time to buy 2 or 3 good low mileage examples and put them away in the garage. Because if the price and availability of oil goes the way I fear it will, in a few years they will be bid up so high we won't be able to afford them anymore.

You make a good statement but this is true for all cars not just MB. It's personaly sad to think of some of the fine cars I have owned in my life that are gone now

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BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif
15 VW Passat TDI
00 E420
98 E300 DT
97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME!
97 S500
97 E300D
86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D
86 300SDL
(o\|/o)

This is a fasinating and true thread thus far. I certainly hope that more people read it and respond.

Ganaraska's comments seem to ring very true and describe the situation well. Today's cars are technologically well beyond what all but the most skilled and knowledgable DIY can be expected to keep running well for 300,000+ miles. While there are reasons for this which we can agrue for and against, it is the natural course to "improve."

A central requirement for an automobile to remain in service for a very, very long lifespan is that it remain serviceable by the owner or indy in a reasonably cost-effective way.

I have owned 50 year old european sportscars, none of them were inexpensive or practical to maintain; none of them had over 60,000 miles, none of them started up on a 10 deg F morning. Sportscars today are "better," but not classic. With regard to older-technology diesel passenger cars it seems that new is not absoletely better. Many of these older cars are still in practical service; many are still very presentable; many are quite practical and serviceable by their owners without vast discretionary funds, and with proper upkeep/maintenance as described throughout this forum, seem to be capable of service for a very long lifespan to come.

Personally, I could probably afford the new diesel passenger car if that suddenly became my obsession for some reason, but I would never buy it. I just feel that we have a good product already (mine is a W123 wagon) and if we work at it then it will prove us right in the future. I would probably buy a hydrid car in the future once the technology is better proven for reliability and it's put in a package that I like to look at and in a useful form (on this note the Prius falls short). In any case, I will coontinue to read this forum and park the new cars outside and the W123 inside the garage.

--CD

Going to look at my first 83 W123 240D...If she's fine,I'll keep her bone stock.I figure that with German engineering,there isn't anything I can do to improve on all of the research and development that went into this fine machine!

Why improve on perfection....

What got to me was the Benz commercial about the New Mercedes going threw it's life..looking at the family grow..and at the same time the car aging as well.Then you see her in the machine being crushed....Get's ya right there!

I think it's useful to add that while today's good diesels cost $30K to $60K. We should remember that many of our beloved inexpensive diesels from the early 80s did cost $30,000+ - $35,000 back then and in 1980s dollars.

The main difference being I think is that the older technology remains serviceable (although perpetual need for service) throughout its perpetual seeming lifespan, whereas today's technology will be more expensive to upkeep.

--CD

older technology is better in my eyes... when i was
a kid i could put the quarter in the soda machine and instantly
a coke droped... today i put the money in and wait 45 seconds
for the machine to think about giving me the soda...

remember we went to the moon back when these cars were built
we were at our apex...

I agree with you Pete, but, I don't see it as a rapid change. I see it as a continually evolving process.

In the last three weeks I have been a bit saddened to see three separate 300 SDL's reach a point where it is economically unfeasable to keep them operating. In all cases, the mechanical issues that have crept up on the owners over time, and the rust that has crept up on the body over time has resulted in a relatively intact vehicle that can't be restored for a penny less than $10K. I'm very sure of this value because I have documented all of the repairs to this SDL, and it has no need of paint and body work.

I see these vehicles as being very technically challenging for most people. This includes most of us on this board. We may not want to admit it, but, how many of us can say that we have repaired every single thing on the "list" and the vehicle, effectively, operates in the same condition as it was 20 years ago?

The fact is that these vehicles require significant amounts of time and money to keep them from deteriorating to the point where they are dismantled for parts.

Personally, I feel a sense of loss when this happens. It is almost as though the owners have failed the vehicle. Of course, the manufacturer is more than pleased to see a 20 year old vehicle head for the boneyard. However, I see it differently and and I'm going to provide my best efforts to prevent this from happening to these two.

Now we just hand all of our technology over to China and they ship it back to us as a product made with slave labor..

Although I do admire the people running their diesels on french fry oil, I don't trust myself to do that.

For me it would be like a science project and I don't want to go there and risk damage to 20+ year old parts. Plus insurance seems much more an expense than diesel (as long as your car doesn't get 8 mpg).

I hope the WVO, veg oil (whatever) drivers understand what they are doing much better than I do so that the cars stay on the road for a long time.

These are just cars though, and if people want to have fun doing different things to fuel them, if scoring bacon grease for your car is a turn on and identity builder, then so be it and enjoy. Nothing lasts forever no matter what you do with it. Nothing.

--CD

That's the neat thing about this forum Carlton...We can help form the future!

at every little airport you will find cessnas and other airplanes
from as old as 1946 to 1974.... our last 401 cessna was a 1976
and these things are still operating...

the old mercedes diesel is like these airplanes....1983 has no rust at all.

Normal cycle; as W126's and W123's age and are junked people will move on to the W124/140 and so on. I see the beginings of this now W140's are getting cheap enough and are still new enough that some people seem to be jumping ship and upgradeing.

A lot of people buy these cars and just drive them I see few very nice older cars of any make on the road, but beat MB's just don't seem to die. As cars age people put less money into them.

Hold on to your nice older MB's because nice ones will be getting more rare.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

These cars have not lost their charm yet. Just today, I was approached by a man who has a 1971 gasser (either a W114/115 or W108/109 presumably), and a 1986 560SL, he asked me if I would like to sell my 300D. I told him "oh no, I just got it." He asked me about the mileage, and he told me he is a member of MBCA, but that's about all we exchanged, he had to get into the office, and I needed fuel as the needle was almost on reserve, I wish I had gotten his name and referred him to this website. The old W123s have still got it.

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'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

Everything changes. Don't see too many 50s era cars on the road today. A Model T is a 'traffic stopper and gawker'. I wonder what folks said about those new air-filled tires - they just can't be a reliable as a good ol' solid tire.

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daBenz - 1970 220D