617 in, won't start...and I'm an idiot. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

CannonBall · #1 06-12-2005, 10:09 PM

So I didn't realize a few things.

1) the motor mount legs from the engine are different from a 116 300sd to a 123 240d. I had to swap them over.

2) it's easier to put the tranny on the engine before going in, but when you have to pull it out because you're an idiot and leave on the old motor mount legs then...I dunno well anyway...

3) there are a lot of vacuum hoses, does anyone have pics of them, mainly the drivers side, some fairly detailed shots? That'd be great. (I will search this as well)

4) Glow plugs, uhhh I swapped over the wiring harness, but the one deal has 4 plugs from the main into the glow plug relay box, the other has five, I think the extra one is labeled B. Derrrrr, can someone help me with this? I thought it would be totally straight forward so I never really looked into it.

5) the engine will turn over but won't start, could this be something to do with no vacuum hoses connected and no glow plugs? hmm, ya think?

6) On the side of the alda (I think it's the alda) There was a banjo bolt with a fitting that went to a deal on the firewall, what is this thing? How important is it? (not that I broke it or anything)

7) With the x-member, I saw some people mounted then sideways, some shortened it. Uhh, I don't know why I put this, it's just something I haven't done yet.

Ok, well totally beat cause like for some reason when I work on cars I don't eat. Any help would be great, I'm not sure what I should search for that would have a whole bunch of pictures of the drivers side of the engine compartment. Anyway, I'm totally beat, totally dirty, and totally have to be at work at 6am tomorrow. Thanks.
-Nate

leathermang · #2 06-12-2005, 10:24 PM

Have you checked the Sticky at the top of the page which has vacuum diagrams ?

"I thought it would be totally straight forward so I never really looked into it."

Oh, that is a good one.... you won't make that mistake again... next time...think DIGITAL CAMERA .... this is a wonderful deal which us old timers really appreciate.... nothing like them the first 35 years of mechanical projects... Even exact same year same everything will throw some kind of kink at you.... always some hidden problem .... just learn not to get too upset...and alway allow four times as much time as you think it will take...

t walgamuth · #3 06-12-2005, 10:30 PM

first off stop to eat and rest.

you're not an idiot just running further on enthusiasm than experience... by the time you get the experience the energy level is lower so instead of doing these things you sit at the computer and work the fingers... like i am now.

the glow plug timer is different for a five than a four, so you 'll need one from a 123 300. also prob the motor mount struts.

this is why i always recommend starting with two cars of similar model age and body style... the details will kill you.

i think the banjo may go to the alda... but this i am not sure about. someone will chime in. if it is the alda, you definately need it..in fact most of the things are needed or they wouldnt be there.

dont give up... things always seem more desparate when youre tired and hungry.

rg2098 · #4 06-12-2005, 10:37 PM

Glow plugs could definetly help. You may still have some air in the lines as well. Vacuum lines are not needed at all for the car to run.

leathermang · #5 06-12-2005, 10:40 PM

Did you fill the screw on filter and use the hand primer pump ?

CannonBall · #6 06-12-2005, 10:45 PM

Well I say I'm an idiot because although I've never done an engine swap, I've done enough to know I should have marked the vacuum lines, etc.

Yeah, that giant sticky post will prolly do me good, thanks...like I said...I'm out of it.

Ok, well I'm done with thinking about this for the night. If anyone in boulder area is bored next weekend I'm going to try and get it going. WOOHOO!!! Time for beer.
-Nate

edit: Yeah I might have to fill the screw on filter. I primed it till it was making that like squishy sound. I was told that that sound meant it was primed, but I know that I pumped the primer pump when the engine was out cause I was bored. That's what kills me though, cranking it...doesn't even sound like it wants to start, so I'm thinking like neit fuel.

Brian Carlton · #7 06-12-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

...and alway allow four times as much time as you think it will take...

So, I figured that I could get the head up off the block in 8 hours total time, right? Can't be all that difficult.

20 hours later, I'm just about ready to lift it when I get the engine hoist.

franklyspeaking · #8 06-12-2005, 10:50 PM

It takes along time to get fuel through these engines the first time. You might want to crack an injector line to see if anything is coming through. It sometimes takes a couple of battery recharges to get one started after an overhaul. Of course, working glow plugs would help some also...once you get fuel to the injectors.

Good luck!

CannonBall · #9 06-12-2005, 11:08 PM

You know...pulling the engines was SO much faster than any other engine I've pulled (they've mostly been EFI, newer stuff.) Wat kills me is...if I'd have known the feet off the block were different it would have been about as long as I thought, and if I would have known I would be a dumbass and put them in separetely I could have had the engine in the 240 last week. In any case...I'm glad it's turning over, I'm glad I'm getting power to stuff...stereo. I'm pretty pumped as the prospect of entering the freeway at 65, espicially with the 3.47's. Thanks again guys...wheew winding down. I said I'd check out this is for real!

-Nate

grimgaunt · #10 06-13-2005, 01:25 AM

In San Francisco reading this thread - couple of points to note

a) the shutoff for the IP is vacuum actuated, strange things can happen when it is disconnected

b) for the guy that suggested that he needs a 123 5-plug relay - he does have one - he also DOES have the donor car next to it (used to be mine)

c) reuse the crossmember slanted to engage one auto x-member bolt hole and another manny tranny hole (see post by Tomj )

d) good luck, I hope to see you driving this when I get back in town in 2 weeks

e) crack the fuel lines at all 5 injectors, unscrew and pump the bleed pump about 20-30 strokes, until fuel comes out of all lines, tighten 1 or 2 and glow and crank until it fires unevenly, tighten other lines

f) that engine has superb compression, if you warm the block with the heater overnight that will start w/o glowing tomorrow

CannonBall · #11 06-13-2005, 08:16 AM

My question was more like... there's plugs labled La, 13, 51, 30 or something like that for my 240d. For the 300 there's an extra one into the box before it goes to the engine labeled B. I was just wondering which color wires go on which plugs. Again, this is my poor planning and I had disconnected the glow plug box with just thinking "oh it's a plug it'll go right back in." So yeah, when it didn't fit, I took it apart and well it went downhill from there.

With the x-member slanted won't that pull the tranny slighlty off center? Or is that insignificant?

Yeah, if I'm not driving it in 2 weeks I'm not going to be pleased. As for the radiator, I mounted up the 116 300sd one and it's currently held in place with zip ties until I can score a 123 one. There are a few other things, but I'm at work now typing in secret so my boss doesn't see

Thanks everyone!
-Nate

grimgaunt · #12 06-13-2005, 10:09 AM

the angle of the cross member is in one plane (horizontal), while it does put some torque on the rubber mount itself it certainly wont twist the tranny in any appreciable manner.

like I said, warm the engine, purge the lines and crank away

t walgamuth · #13 06-13-2005, 08:02 PM

i see he has two full cars... but i said two cars of the same body style...as in two 123s. and if he had a later 123 240 then the glow plug timer would be different right?

anyway, just trying to help... not chastising. i respect that he has done a great deal of work to achieve an ideal car. we all have those urges. my recommendations are of the order to help people from biting off more than they can chew... i hate seeing unfinished projects... the represent dreams gone bad.

Johnhef · #14 06-13-2005, 10:03 PM

Im not sure as to why its giving you so much trouble. Back when I did the car I swapped engines on, I got wiring diagrams of both glow systems and drew it out first. Then, took out the entire glow system and cut the harness out of the donor car and installed it all into the replacement vehicle.

The hardest time I had was having to fabricate some of the throttle linkages to make it go.

CannonBall · #15 06-13-2005, 11:05 PM

It runs, it runs it runs it runs!!! woohoo!

ok but it won't turn off and door locks don't work, hmmm did I mess up vacuum stuff, derrrr? I think I'm just gonna have to get someone with a 123 and a 617 in the area to let me look, I dunno what the hell all those vacuum diagrams are. I wired the glow plugs though and they work fine...got the tranny in place and measured for the DS. 58cm is what I was told and I was right about there so I'll go with that!

The linkage really hasn't given me a problem except it doesn't want to return, which is weird because when I hooked it up it returned fine, maybe I knocked the spring or something. I just swapped the whole 240d linkage thingamajig on and ditch the dysfunctional cruise control. uhhh...what else..I dunno bet time, gotta be up for work at 4:30.
-Nate