When I asked about R12 at Advance Auto (even less informed than your average Autozone, if that's possible) one guy says "R12!! that's illegal! that's illegal!" then another guy says "why would you use R12 anyway? R134 works much cooler. Just fill it up and you're good to go!"

I nodded my head saying "thanks for the info guys" and walked out.

__________________
'82 300SD - 361K mi - "Blue"

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

listen, look, .........and duck.

"I know... but did you know..
The average female might have almost that much propane in the
propellants of the various products she has in her bathroom."


How fast is her bathroom traveling ?
Are those located on the front end of the bathroom with no protection from being released in a spark invested accident ?

Since R12 is not flammable under normal crash circumstances... that is one of the reasons it is used... Ammonia is a perfectly good refrigerant for stationary situations... but is also avoided in moving vehicle situations....

Except for milk delivery trucks.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

"anyone tryed propane/butane mix instead of R12? It works, it’s cheap, Australians use it."

That is exactly why we placed them on the other side of the earth from us...
When they blow up the Reds,Grays and Wallobys will again have the peaceful continent to themselves.....

And your point is?

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

"Except for milk delivery trucks."

But to be honest in the comparison... aren't those the top mounted units... as compared to having it at the very front of the vehicle to be messed up first in any normal collision ?

It averages to about $18/14oz can on ebay. I found some NOS AC parts for my SD on there... Dryer was $14, Expansion Device was $22, and Manifold Hose $75.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

Freeze 12 is perfectly acceptable for use as R-12. I just used it! Got 38 degrees at the vent on an almost 90 degree day with high humidity.

If my R-12 had not leaked all out of my 30lb container, I of course would have used that.

__________________
1981 300D 147k
1998 VW Jetta Tdi 320k
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 141k
1979 300D 234k (sold)
1984 300D "Astor" 262k(sold)
Mercedes How-To and Repair Pictorials
I love the smell of diesel smoke in my hair

You are new here....
We have been discussing this for years.....
You have not read the archives you need to concerning this...
It looks like you have not even read all this thread....
If you had been smart you would have found some R12 on Ebay to install in your system instead of taking the easy but short sighted action you did of installing Freeze 12.
Vent temperature is not the only.... and not even the most important criteria on old Mercedes AC systems.
Since R12 is available and gives cold air... longivity and future service considerations shoot to the top of the criteria list ( for people in the know )....

Saying these R12 wannabe's are just as good as R12 is like saying Anna Konikova is the same as Rosie O'Donnal, they are both women and both have the same parts....and would function as women.....

But which would you preffer R12 (Anna Kornikova) or the other stuff (Rosie O'Donnal) ?

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I'll take Rosie O'Donnel (if that's who you mean by "O'Donnal) any day. I kinda like my women thick. LOL. Just kidding.

R12 is very expensive compared to R134a or even Freeze-12. For someone who just wants cold air now and probably won't even own their car in two years' time, I'd say go ahead and do what you have to do. One problem I keep seeing on this forum is a group of people who forget that some just buy these cars to use as they expect to get something better. Not everyone wants to keep a car for 10 years. Even at that, a small accident can bring your intended long ownership to an end. As long as people know what their choices are, the final decision is fine... I wouldn't knock anyone for their decisions regarding their car.

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

"R12 is very expensive compared to "--Braverichard

To be fair you have to consider things like the time the expensive parts of your system will are likely to last with other refrigerants in it...
You have to factor in the fact that finding someone to service your car a year from now may be hard due to limitations in the recycling machines the shop owns...
Remember that our AC systems are designed to leak some at the compressor shaft to keep that main seal lubricated... So one should plan ahead ...without making a complete evacuation necessary... for maintenance of the refrigerant charge...

What I keep seeing is people who forget that what they do to THEIR car is different from advocating that by posting on a forum where many people have little means of assessing the credibility of the poster....

"As long as people know what their choices are, the final decision is fine... I wouldn't knock anyone for their decisions regarding their car."--Braverichard

That is what I am trying to keep in the discussion for OTHER readers.. the other facts that he left out of his advocacy of using Freeze 12.

I get your point. However, it seems to me that the way he presented the procedures leaves the choice of refridgerant up to the individual performing the action on his/her car. Just like he originally started by stating he was going to use R12 but ended up resorting to Freeze 12 due to unavailability. Where I side with you is on the issue that his presentation could easily misguide the ignorant into thinking there are no serious negatives to using Freeze 12 instead of R12 that should be in the system. Perhaps he can just add a line like "using Freeze 12 may limit you from getting service from A/C shops that won't allow that stuff to contaminate their system, however if you do all of your own A/C work then you won't have that issue." Indeed his instructions seem like direct steps to restoring your A/C by traditional means, whereas putting Freeze 12 in an R12 system is anything but traditional.

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Problem is too many people reading this thread haven't taken the time to search the archives for the problems of using these "alternative" refridgerants and the correct things to do....Leathermang and Larrybible have extensive posts on the subject....and I consider them to be the two most knowledgible people on the forum in this subject.

Judging from questions asked on A/C the last two weeks alone it would seem noboduy seems to know how to uese the search fuction.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I would think a sticky on AC chatter (as well as all the other common issues) might appropriate. Maybe linking all the worthwhile 'extensive posts' to a sticky might be a start.

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1982 Silver 300DT