Old Diesel

[ALdiesel]

I've just been given permission to take "an old diesel" mercedes off of someone's hands. The car is covered and the paint is good from what i understand, but it's been sitting for a while and will not run. What should i take with me to atempt to get it running/ diagnosed? I'm getting the car as a gift, and would like to be able to make it run. From what i understand, it's a late 1970's model. I do not know the model number yet, or the actual year. I know it's vague, but any suggestions would help.

[junqueyardjim]

I would say the least you will need is a fresh charged battery and the necessary tools to get it installed. It doesn't really pay to try to jump start a car thats been sitting for a long time.
I would try to find out from someone how long it has been sitting. How long have the license been expired. Does it look like it has been sitting for years. Then also, I think a small can of fresh diesel and enough hose to hook into the supply line along with a fresh filter or filters. Try to keep the can of diesel above the height of the pump. If it starts hook to regular tank if fuel is present and looks and smells reasonable. Stop engine to before making fuel changeover.
I think a helper/buddy is invaluable in a situation like that. "Two edds is better then one! Watch out for snakes and vermin!


If it was easy everybody would do it!

junqueyardjim

[leathermang]

First put NEW proper oil into it. Put a new oil filter on it. Do not turn the motor until you do that.
Then put the new battery in .....
Take off the screw on fuel filter and fill it with Diesel Purge.
Use the hand pump and bleed the air from the screw on fuel filter.
Syphon all the stuff out of the fuel tank... then put in some fresh diesel fuel .. with a can of Diesel Purge.
Then take the glowplugs out and use the new battery to turn the engine over until you see pressure registered on the guage on the dash....
Put a new clear inline filter on it...
check and fill up your coolant level....
after oil pressure is registered... put glowplugs back in and start it up.

Do a valve setting as soon as practical.

Trailor would be my first choise. But in the event you do not have one in the yard a good battery and good jumper cables to start with. From there a set of glow plugs may be needed, but you will need to see what you have there first. The fuel filters should be changed before turning the engine over, as well as a fresh oil filter and a fresh oil change.
Likely the 50 amp GP fuse is either out or blown. On that vintage it is usuaully mounted on the firewall, behind the engine and if not blown, it should be at least unscrewed and cleaned, if not replaced.
Take a volt- ohmeter and check for 12v at the glow plugs. Won't ever start without that.
Once the GP's are operable and the filters are changed out, locate the fuel hand pump on the injector pump and see if it will pump fuel into the IP. If it will not then that will probably need to be replaced, or possibly cleaned up and made to work again. Pump until fuel pours out of the top of the big fuel filter when loosened.
Then crack open an injector line and turn the engine over until fuel apprears there. Retighten and it may even start then, unless something else is bad. Did I mention that the fuel is likely to have green grass growing inside the tank? yes it will, best to drain the tank and dump in some algea kill, buy at a good parts store. Oh yes, refill with fresh fuel.

[Ganaraska]

"What should i take with me to atempt to get it running/ diagnosed?"

Don't try to start it there. At very least, the brakes will be iffy and the tires may be shot. Have it towed to your house free of charge by the auto club. If you don't belong to the auto club join. But remember you have to wait a week before your first free tow call.

When you get it home clean it up and examine everything you can find in the trunk, glove compartment, and under the seats. Don't throw anything away! Except the McDonald's wrappers and dried up ball point pens. Anything else, especially bolts, screws or weird shaped pieces of metal or plastic are sure to be irreplacable parts for the car. A month after you throw them away you will suddenly find where they go.

Put all the parts you find in a box and put the box in the trunk. You may well find brand new parts and these will tell you what part failed and resulted in the car being out of commission. For example if you find new brake pads and discs in the trunk that tells you the brakes were faulty when it was put away.

You will probably need to test and recharge the battery unless it is completely shot and needs replacement. In that case borrow the battery out of your other car. No need to blow the money for a battery until you find out if the car is any good. Try to get it running and try out the lights, steering etc. Make a list of ALL the repairs the car needs, and only then decide if you want to go ahead. Please don't start with big renditions of grandeur, only to waste hundreds or thousands of $$$$ bucks, only to give up half way through. Figure out what all the car needs before you commit yourself.

If it is more than you want to get involved in, clean the car up, wash it nicely, pump up the tires and put it up for sale as is. Please don't mess around with the car trying to get it going cheap. Be honest, and sell it for a reasonable price to someone who knows what they are doing or if it is really far gone, sell it as a parts car.

[leathermang]

Either trailer or a tow truck which picks it up by the wheels... but the trailer to your house is sure the best deal....

[coldwar]

Just one more point I think would be real important- whether or not you tow the car home immediately. When you take the glow plugs out as in the procedure above, try to crank the engine over by hand to make sure it is not seized up. If it's a manual tranny, put it in gear and rock the car- if you see the pulleys turning you're OK. If it's automatic, try getting a big socket and breaker bar on the crank pulley and see if it budges. If it doesn't budge, liberally shoot some good penetrating oil into the plug holes and let it sit a few hours, then repeat this procedure. It may come unstuck, then you can try cranking it with the starter.

Dave

1976 300D

[leathermang]

I always do that to old engines .... but forgot to mention it... it can keep you from messing up a lot of other things.... like rings....

[t walgamuth]

all of the above posts are fine and very cautious. i have been going and fetching dead cars for 40 years now. i have never done all that and i have never damaged an engine by trying to start it. i would put the cables on it and see if it cranks over without any hesitation. if it wont crank over then i would start looking from there.

[ALdiesel]

Thanks for all the advice. I went to look at the car, and it's not a diesel. Now it looks like i have a rust-free non-running 1971 280SE. I'll have to change my member name and head over to another forum...
Lucas

[ALdiesel]

I'm having the car towed to my brother-in-law's house today. There I'll be able to really look at everything and begin a diagnosis/ parts list. The car belonged to a man who got it from his mother (the original owner). He died last year, and it was running about a year and a half ago. The tags expired in August of 2004. It's been sitting for about a year. It has been on a driveway and under a car-cover all this time. I'm good friends with the widow's godson and she wanted me to get it off her driveway. This is my fird MB, and i'm really excited about getting the wrenches out. At this point i do not know if it is a good candidate for a restoration. It's such a classic looking car that I'm afraid i've already got delusions of grandeur. At least I'll look good parked... I'll keep everyone updated with the status and post some pics this week.

Lucas

[WANT '71 280SEL]

DO NOT, just put a battery on it and try to start it. That will condemn the pmp instantly. You need to pull the fuel pump and clean it up. Take it apart if you have to. Or, you could turn the key to on and see if it comes on right away and if it doesn't, turn the ket off right away. Thing is though, if it works then it will suck the crappy gas in and that will clog it up. So, just take it out and clean it up well while you're draining the tank and cleaning the fuel lines.

Thanks
David

[tesavage]

This is from the (now defunct) mbz.org 108 list; a pretty comprehensive "resurrection how-to." Have fun, and good luck!

Tom

Subject: Re: [108] 280 sel
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 02 11:46:00 -0600
From: Peter Frederick
Reply-To: 108@mbz.org
To: <108@mbz.org>

Dave:

Depends on the engine and fuel system, but for sure you need to clean the
fuel system, the fuel pump will be stuck, injector nozzles will be stuck,
etc. Drain any fuel out -- just take the hose off at the fuel pump, it
will drain most everything, then remove the strainer in the center of the
tank.

Electric pump can usually be restored to operation by taking it off,
filling it with brake parts cleaner, and connecting to a battery
intermittantly, changing polarity each time. They will usually start to
"kick" each time and eventually run. Best to clip leads to the pump
connections and switch the wires at the battery, a long way from the pump
-- sparks will ignite the brake parst cleaner -- not the dead gas in
there, though!

Once you get the pump going, re-install (or get a new one if you cannot
get the old one to run), put 4 or 5 gallons of fuel in the tank and a
bottle of RedLine or Techron injector cleaner, then bridge the fuel pump
relay and let it run for several hours. This will clean all the crud out
of the filters, lines, and on the EFI, most of the varnish from the
injectors. On the mechanical injection, this will only, alas, clear the
pump supply chamber until you start it. Add another 5 gal of fuel before
you try to start it.

DO NOT TRY TO START IT DRY!!! Pull the valve cover(s) and plugs, drench
the valve train with fresh oil, and squirt a little automatic tranny
fluid into each cylinder and let sit overnight. Re-oil the valve train
next day, then roll engine over by hand in the normal direction of
rotation. This will allow you to check condition of valve train, chain,
and smoothness of rotation. Best to keep going until you see oil pumping
up to the valves (if you leave the plugs out, it's easy to rotate the
engine). If the cam is clean and the engine rotates smoothly, you are
ready to go. If the cams are rusty, the chain has rust on it, there is
evidence of water in the oil (unlikely in your case), you will need to do
repairs first, but if everything looks good, you are ready to start it.

Verify that you have spark and that the wires are usable. Points and
coil will probably be OK if it was running when parked, but the wires can
go bad. If you have spark, leave it until it runs, then do a complete
tuneup.

Make sure you have an intact air filter and no mouse nests in the intake!
Check for mouse nests in the exhaust, too -- unlikely, but possible. If
you have serious mouse infestation, check the engine compartment wiring
for chew damage, too.

Check all the hoses, especially the EFI intake related ones, replace any
too hard or cracked.

Once it starts, get it warm and then shut down, change oil hot and
coolant once it cools off. I would recommend doing several MB citric
acid flushes (Zerex make a good one, too -- look for citric acid and EDTA
on the contents label). Fill and drain several times to get all the crud
out (my 280 had been sitting with water rather than coolant in the block
for years, took two flushes and five rinses to get the rust out), then
fill with proper coolant -- use the orange stuff or MB coolant, no
Prestone, etc green stuff.

If you have an automatic, it will be several quarts low on fluid,
probably, from the torque converter leaking down and fluid spilling out
the overflow vent. Fill before panicing, it's normal to have tranny
fluid on the converter housing and main body from this. I'd plan on a
fluid change pronto, too, with filter.

Brakes will be rusty, so plan on replacing rotors if they vibrate.
Change the brake fluid while you are inspecting, probably should plan on
replacing the four brake hoses, too -- they will be dead by now from age
alone. Pull all the pads to make sure they aren't rusted down, you
probably don't need to replace them immediately. If they are worn to
near the end of their life, go ahead and replace pads and rotors and
change brake fluid before you try to drive it, saves time.

Once you get the engine and brakes, etc going, tackle the interior (or
reverse order, if you prefer). Leather seats, stitting for this length
of time, will be dry and brittle, so before you sit in the car, get some
good leather treatment (Lexol or Leatherique) and restore them.
Otherwise, they will rip beyone repair almost instantly. Mine are gone
(blue leather is the first to die, by the way), so will have to replace
them someday. Probably going to put cheap covers on first.

With a little luck, you can get it going in a couple days!

Peter
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[t walgamuth]

above post is excellent. one minor point. if there is any reason to suspect water in the oil such as a high oil level reading i would drain the oil or at least a quart and check for water. if there is water in it it will sit in the bottom of the pan and be pumped first and have good chance of damaging bearings.

[ALdiesel]

Here are some pics. I hope to get started this weekend with the lists I've been provided. Thanks again for all the advice

Lucas