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  #31  
Old 07-05-2005, 02:50 PM
Fimum Fit
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One more aspect of the issue:

Most people will not succeed in making a living as mechanics if they love mechanical or electronic devices so much that they think it's the only life for them. The problem is that if you take apart an engine or transmission the way most of us DIY folks do it, examining every piece and spending lots of time marvelling at how brilliantly the engineers solved the problems which we hadn't even thought of before, you won't get enough done in a day to put even one meal on the table, let alone afford the table and a place to put it. I imagine that a few of the great ones, like Stevebfl, etc., must have the self control to get the job done well during working hours and spend their evenings studying the "journals" and satisfying their love of the science and art of their profession.

I want to second everything said previously about the importance of a complete education, even in areas whose value you may not now appreciate. After all, I just retired as a professor of Greek and Latin literature, and I've got lots of messages from people who thank me for things that made their life a success even though they hated it while I was making them do it. But I earned my education with mechanical work, although mostly on trucks and farm machinery, both fixing and operating, not supercars.

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  #32  
Old 07-05-2005, 03:27 PM
home of 4,5,6,8 cylinders
 
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To be or not to be.

Is really hard to say what u fit in School/ screwed or auto tech. We live in the Igloo land north of the 49th parallel, our Mechanics training system could be different.


Here U go to tech school for 6-8 mths then find an apprentice job in any repair shop. Every yr u go back for few weeks, at the end of 4or 5 yrs u get the walking papers and be a card carrying Auto mech.

If u don't see spending 4 yrs in College writing papers, debating clubs, pushing pencils ,reading every book insight or doing experiment in labs then this maybe for u.
Joing the Army, Navy could be a good thing during Peace time, now u get to go to far lands of Baghdad what a wonderful exotic place if there weren't conflicts and might even get lucky to meet your 72 virgins along with your Nemesis too.

if u're a real good mech, u can also be working with exotic cars, or even racing teams too, teach in Auto tech college. There're damn good mech out there whose are consultants too, over see dealership, diagnosing difficult cars the big 3 built. u get lots of them don't worry.
A fnd's son whose working with Chrysler, says he only got a mech ticket, but his job does require a engineering degree. Don't think the folks are so dumb to promoted someone who can't do the job.

I came close to be a mech too back then, but my dumb bros says, these jobs will be redundant soon, cars won't need to work on. I havene't seen any cars that don't use wheels, an engine yet, probably not in my lifetime.
Education is always a good thing, but now with advent of internet, u can just about learn new things everyday, depends what do u read too.

But for any job if u just want to put in 8 hrs and not thinking of advancing your knowledge then life can be very unbearable.
A fnd is a aricraft mech, their industry face lots of laid off, but he being hard work, took all the courses in sight, so he can certify/work on every thing that flies in his airline 7 series Boeing to Airbus, so they can't render him redundant. others were sent home long time ago, can u figure out why?
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  #33  
Old 07-05-2005, 04:03 PM
home of 4,5,6,8 cylinders
 
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to be or not to be

The truth u can learn w/out going to school, everyday u can open a news paper, internet and read about things, u need to hang around with brighter folks who can teach u, but not the booser, hang out at the nudie bars, do meth, drugs, sell drugs etc.
Wherever u go u'll meet these folks, and College is justa s bad of a place rife with drugs.
One of my class mate, has been nicknamed Jive, he graduated but 2 yrs later tried to jump off a bridge because of Love prob.

There're lots of distant learning avail, can work on your spare time for a degree later too.if its not for u now.
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2005, 04:14 PM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fimum Fit
I want to second everything said previously about the importance of a complete education, even in areas whose value you may not now appreciate. After all, I just retired as a professor of Greek and Latin literature, and I've got lots of messages from people who thank me for things that made their life a success even though they hated it while I was making them do it. But I earned my education with mechanical work, although mostly on trucks and farm machinery, both fixing and operating, not supercars.
It hasn't even taken me a lifetime of success to figure out the value of my years taking Latin ... I'm only 23, and I already realize how much learning that particular language, as well as the history that goes along with it, has enriched my general being. I have the same thoughts about other subjects.

Yes, it's true that one can pick up a book or newspaper or surf the internet and learn quite a bit (for example ... I've learned a HUGE amount from this forum alone). But as far as I'm concerned, there is no replacement for the discourse that goes on in the classroom. Maybe if you happen to have a clan of friends who gather in the coffeehouse and discus Tennessee Williams, disociative identity disorder and the chi square test, you can get the equivalent without going to college or classes. But to me, there's something unique about being in a situation where you are "forced" to discuss issues you might otherwise ignore ... and you're forced to discuss them with people who aren't your friends, per se, and you might not agree with at all.
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2005, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD300
The truth u can learn w/out going to school, everyday u can open a news paper, internet and read about things,
I work for a newspaper ... believe me, you don't want to entrust your learning experience to newspapers ...
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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2005, 04:28 PM
BodhiBenz1987's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83mercedes
But now comes the money issue .....

I know the armed services pays for much of you college education if you can actually find time to go (my brother is in a Military Police National Guard unit stationed down in Crystal River/Iraq), and you can also get valuable job training. I'm just hesistant to join in a time of war (even the reserve or nat'l guard) because I think this would divert me from my goals in life and certainly from my girlfriend who I've been with for the last 3 years. Also I wonder if the MOS you sign up for is usually parallel in reality to how it's described. What I got from most people's advice was that the military is a good experience but not the right choice when regarded in hindsight.

I am the team captain of my rowing team and am ranked high in the state, but I can't juggle college courses, my mechanical tinkering, and rowing, even if it did pay for college.

I guess basically I have to go to an in-state school to be able to afford it so I can get the state academic scholarships....

What were your all's experiences with paying for these college educations? Was it well worth it?

Thanks again for all the help, it's invaluable.
I don't know what to tell you in regard to the military. I know several people who served and would make the same decision if asked again. But I think they are people who are truly dedicated to the idea of defending the country, and if that's not really the motive, it might get very hard to pay for you education that way. But I honestly don't know. My cousin served for several years and spent quite a bit of time in Kuwait. He did not come back gushing about how great it was, but I think he's very well aware of all the good it did for him. I think it "saved him" and he knows it ... he had other problems, too, though.

An in-state scholarship might be your best bet ... I see you have Gainsville in your sig, so I'm assuming your Floridian ... Florida has tons of great schools, so you aren't too "trapped" in that sense. But if you want to go out of state, try contacting a few schools that interest you. It won't hurt to look. Sometimes they do offer scholarships, esp. if you go into an unusual major. Do you have a college counselor at your high school? If so, definately give them a visit ... tell them your interests, needs, etc. and they might be able to provide you with some information that can help you make a decision. They may also have information about local scholarships or scholarship contests that are applicable to out-of-state schools.

I think you'll find you may be less cornered than you think in terms of money. I would explore all avenues. Look into the military. Look into other scholarships. I would also look into crew scholarships, even if it seems like you might not have time for that. Not to toot my own horn, but I ran Div I cross country and track, was sports editor for my paper and also graduated with honors in English ... it was hard as anything, but I made it happen, and I think the same sort of thing can fall into place for you. I hate to be vague, but sometimes that's just all it takes ... things falling into place. And if they don't, you rearrange a few things and try again.

Whatever you choose, I hope it works out for you. Another thing to keep in mind is that it's never too late to learn, so if you can't get things lined up right away, don't fret.
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2005, 04:56 PM
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Hey,
A guy I know served in the Navy aboard an aircraft carrier. He was taught how to maintain generators and other equipment. Today he owns his own company installing and repairing generators. He has a contract with one of my buildings to do quarterly testing and maintenence of my emergency power generator. He makes a decent living and loves his job also he's a hell of a nice guy.

I would love to go aircraft Mehanic school. If I had to do it all over I think that's what I would do. Not that I don't like what I do now though. You need the airframe cert as well as the mechanics cert if you want to get anywhere with that though.

If you were to ask me for advice I would recommend staying in school. Not too many people get the opportunity to get an education. You can always do what you want afterwards.

Danny
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2005, 06:45 PM
I miss my MBZ
 
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You say:
I am the team captain of my rowing team and am ranked high in the state, but I can't juggle college courses, my mechanical tinkering, and rowing, even if it did pay for college.

But I dont agree - Unless you have a wife and kids, you CAN do all of those things. I might me getting up earlier than you do now, or going to bed later, or both, but I agree with the "pro-degree" crowd (don't enlist unless you want to...being there just for the school money sucks). If you cant find more hours in the day, use your hours more efficiently (consolidate trips to the store, eat and surf at the same time...) You can do those things, and since you enjoy at least 2 of them your time will not be wasted.

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  #39  
Old 07-05-2005, 07:24 PM
home of 4,5,6,8 cylinders
 
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to be or not to be

I work for a newspaper ... believe me, you don't want to entrust your learning experience to newspapers ...

There got to be some truth to it, but he/she needs some basic knowledge, which can be picked up by reading the Newspaper.
In Canada our papers are controlled by an Ethnic minority, certain news are filtered out, so as everywhere in the World. Your trusted Gov will only want u to hear ,see things he deemed healthy for you. I was holidaying in Wash, near Can border. this fellow said he likes to tune into Can stn. to get a different slant on the news. back then i thought they'll get the same news as we get here up North.
Is the value of education to be able to sort out things logically, and make your own sound judgement.
Even folks who had degrees they still cannot see things impartially, is blind leading the blind.

But for average person reading the newspaper is one source of information, a little bit more detail than watching news on TV.
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  #40  
Old 07-05-2005, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD300
I work for a newspaper ... believe me, you don't want to entrust your learning experience to newspapers ...

There got to be some truth to it, but he/she needs some basic knowledge, which can be picked up by reading the Newspaper.
In Canada our papers are controlled by an Ethnic minority, certain news are filtered out, so as everywhere in the World. Your trusted Gov will only want u to hear ,see things he deemed healthy for you. I was holidaying in Wash, near Can border. this fellow said he likes to tune into Can stn. to get a different slant on the news. back then i thought they'll get the same news as we get here up North.
Is the value of education to be able to sort out things logically, and make your own sound judgement.
Even folks who had degrees they still cannot see things impartially, is blind leading the blind.

But for average person reading the newspaper is one source of information, a little bit more detail than watching news on TV.
Funny to hear you in the Great White North have the same problem with the mainstream media we have south of the border, narrow minded people trying to feed everyone their idea of what happened instead of the facts. I was coming to believe it was just hear and in England.
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  #41  
Old 07-06-2005, 04:00 AM
ForcedInduction
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I just happen to be a mechanic. I have worked with many different makes/models of vehicles. I'll work on anything from 3.5hp lawnmowers, 1.0L 3-cylinder Geo Metros, SeaDoo watercraft, and 14.0L Cummins N-14 Freightliner dumptrucks. As of now I'm making $14/hr and averaging 52 hours a week. I work nights 3pm to 1am (Average workday, sometimes I can get out at 11pm). It leaves me most of the daylight time to do with as I wish. My boss keeps pushing me to better myself, telling me he is willing to pay $28/hr if I keep going well.

I LOVE my job. I make a good living, its rewarding, and I can see the results driving around me all day. Working on a 2x year old Merceds in the drivway is one thing (Hay, it's how I started) but you have to be willing to move forward with your skills. You want a good job that you can EARN lots of money and time, you don't want to end up like some of these sad people with 7 ASE's working full-time in the Wal-Mart TLE. Don't get me wrong, Wal-Mart lube is a GREAT place to learn the outsides and operation of vehicles.

Getting your CDL is another big ticket item, even if working with small cars. I'm pushing really hard to earn my class A CDL this year and a pass a few ASE tests this Novenber.

Wyotech is a great place to start if you really want into the field. I went to DADC, I really don't like the direction they are moving with their teaching material (They are moving to the 80/20 format, 80% notes 20% hands on ).

Start early, study hard, and LOVE what you do.
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  #42  
Old 07-06-2005, 10:48 AM
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I didn't bother reading every post in this thread as I just got back from a vacation. Therefore if my comments have already been stated, I apologize. As far as the original question, I think having a dad, a brother, and a brother-in-law as mechanics gives me a good perspective from which to answer your question. My dad was a mechanic for 35+ years. When he was in his mid-fifties, his body finally got to the point he couldn't take it any more and he took a job building high pressure power washer pumps. My brother has been a mechanic for over 20 years now and his body is beginning to go down the same road. Both him and my dad were indies with no full-time employees (well, Dad had us kids, but no paid employees) and work/worked 12 hour plus days 5 days a week and usually half a Saturday. Dad struggled to raise a family of three and make ends meet. My brother has never been married and has a pretty thriving business and is making good money. My brother-in-law works for a dealership and learned the trade at school. He doesn't work nearly the hours and makes decent money-but has to answer to his boss.

I think if you are going to go into the trade, school learning is a must. But, I also think working with an older (preferably independent) mechanic is a good thing as well. My brother-in-law learned the trade at school and is much better at technical aspects of the newer engine technologies than my brother or dad. But, as far as taking something apart to fix it (vs just hanging new parts) you can't beat plain old-fashioned ingenuity. You can't get that from a book.
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  #43  
Old 07-06-2005, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.skeen
Very well put. I applied to 3 engineering schools back in the day, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and NC State. Got into all 3 but I stayed in state. Sure you might get the prestige that goes with attending a highly accredited engineering school (not that NC State is bad by any means) but you'll pay for it if it is out of state or private. I say stay in state, get as much free money as you can, and use student loans for the rest. Try to borrow the least amount possible. Work part time during school and definitely utilize the co-op program. I co-oped for a year so it took me 5 years to graduate but I made really good money which meant more play money and less student loan borrowing.

I'd just like to third this... I'm on my 4th co-op work term and am doing a 5th next summer. It is WONDERFUL to get the experience and the paychecks really don't hurt at all. Working has shown me a lot of things. The biggie is that the learning goes back and forth (reinforcing school, learning new stuff school will later reinforce) and that really helps get more out of the whole college experience. Engineering is also not a trivial degree to earn... co-op helps prevent burn-out.

On the paying for it front...

Did I mention the paychecks from co-op? MSU's Co-op salaries

MSU has a program where if you have above a 26 on the ACT they will wave out of state tuition... other schools may have similar programs. Would definately be something worth checking into. If y ou've got scores enough to be something like a PSAT finalist I think if you take a year off you've lost all that scholarship oppotunity... might as well take it while its free!

In state at most schools is pretty reasonable... that coupled with co-op should make most schools very affordable. Staying a full time student allows you to continue to use parent's health insurance, etc and that helps alot...

I've been going for three years, will graduate in December 2006, Wife will graduate sometime (has to figure out what she wants to do first!) and we haven't borrowed a penny yet. Don't plan on it either.

Don't worry about completing the degree in time. You mentioned that you can't juggle classes and your other work loads.... so take the minimum amount of hours for a full time student. If you don't graduate in 8 semesters so what? Do you want 4 years of remembering nothing but books or 5-6 years of good memories, firends, and a good education? Going to a cheap school helps that out too

Whatever you decide to do, do it and be happy. Nobody needs regrets...

Take care,
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  #44  
Old 07-07-2005, 12:34 AM
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Wow, good thread.
I am a Lehigh University EE / Metallurgy / EE dropout, class of 1980.
I went for 4 years but only accumulated 79 credits.
I was an Air Force ROTC cadet with a 3 year scholarship.
They paid my tuition, books, and lab fees and $100 a month.
When I dropped out I got an administrative discharge, owed the USAF nothing, but this was during the Carter administration.

I got involved with a local cable TV system, drawing maps, then getting into RF design (remember I had 4 years of engineering).
I'm still with the same company, 25 years later, making ok money, not huge, but not awful either.

I'm now 47 years old, and the most strenuous parts of my job are walking around some job sites a few times a month.

I don't think I would have done well relying on my mechanical skills to make a living.
I will admit to having entertained the thought.... if I were young, lived with my parents, I could possibly afford to start as a gopher/parts guy/apprentice at a dealership and work my way up from there.
Drive the customer's new SL's and CL65's into the service bays... ah yes.

But the reality is, what little work I do on my cars usually takes a long long time, and as someone pointed out, if you're getting paid by the hour, you need to earn enough to put food on the table.
My center muffler took me much too long to replace, (dozens of hours over a three week period)
I had to quit on more than one occasion because my body was in severe pain after struggling to get the old muffler off.
(Frozen bolts, stuck pipes, corroded everything, black soot on the undercarriage, more frozen bolts, air chisels getting stuck in the gaps between the pipes... grrrr... and this is on my own car!!)
Putting the new one on the car was a piece of cake by comparison.

That college co-op program sounds like it would be worth checking into.
Also, around here we have 2-year community colleges that are cheaper than 4-year schools, and some 4-year college will let you transfer credits from the first two (cheaper) years.
Our local community college even has an automotive technology program...
http://www.northampton.edu/academics/credprgs/autotech.pdf
Also, no one has mentioned the US Air Force.
Back when I was in ROTC, it was considered sort of more elite than the Army and Navy; if nothing else, the Air Force had a lot of the coolest planes.
With the war and all, I would really think twice about it though, especially if you like your girlfriend
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Last edited by Robert W. Roe; 07-07-2005 at 12:45 AM.
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2005, 12:45 AM
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Cool

"....I think Abraham Lincoln said that...No I said that."
17 and quoting Bob Dylan from over 40 years ago....Go to college; Don't join any branch of any service whatever you do! Learn a foreign language...At 17 there is so much more out there that you don't even know exists yet....another great Dylan line is "I've forgotten more than you'll ever know."
and convert to WVO too.
A friend in Fl.

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