131K one owner miles, brought it home yesterday, see related thread here http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=130012

Taking the car to my indy today to have everything checked out and come up with a to-do list, some for me and some for him.

I drive to him through the neighborhood, about 10 miles, with quite few turns, moderate hills, and several stops.

My issue: At a few of the stops, maybe 20%, the car was very sluggish, seemed like it would not go and I was getting on the throttle. Low RPM and then is just seemed to catch up with itself, fairly large cloud of black smoke, then off we go. All other stops were “normal” with RPM building quickly to about 2K then good turbo response, no visible smoke. No obvious pattern and the engine was warm for the whole trip.

My indy knows this car, and worked on it for the PO. He says the PO had complained about a transmission problem, but they could not find anything wrong. I said if it’s what I experienced I can see how they thought it might be the trans, but it seemed fuel system related to me. I looked at the clear filter and it is spotless. Seems like it’s getting the fuel (black smoke) just not dealing with it correctly. All trans shifts are crisp and on time as far as I could tell. Max speed on the trip was maybe 40-45MPH. Did it to me once at an intersection where I had slowed to make a right turn, just as the light changed, so I got back into the throttle and got the hesitation, cloud, then off we go.

Of course they are going to check it out, but I thought the forum might have some ideas. I tried searching, but could not come up with any threads with much info.

Waiting for the first diagnosis on an old car can be like waiting for a baby to be born. The Dr. comes into the waiting room and says “It’s a beautiful baby girl, but she’s got 3 legs.”

Thanks,

Clay

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2002 E320 Sedan 93K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 205K Black Wagon
1982 240D 183K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.

Firstly, Congratulations on a fine choice of automobile
These are GREAT cars and worth any time or effort they take to keep them in fine fettle.

Not sure exactly what your intermittent sluggish response might be, but maybe your 'indy' may find something. Perhaps it is trying to start in second gear once in a while, although I have never experienced that myself. It could be a sticking kickdown mechanisim or some other vacuum related transmission item. These are heavy cars and combined with the looooong accelerator pedal travel, they can seem very slow off the line until the turbo kicks in.

Good luck

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1991 M-B 560SEL Arctic White/Grey 99,000 Miles
1987 M-B 300SDL Ivory/Palomino 229,000 Miles (sold but never forgotten)
2006 Volvo XC70 Blue/Beige
1999 Porsche Boxster Arena Red/Savanna Beige
1986 Porsche 928S Goldweiss/Brown

Did the car sit for a while? Both of mine did and giant plumes of smoke came out of the tailpipe for a bit until I cleaned it out by just driving it about. It looked so bad a few times you couldn't see the car! I think they had a bit of water in the fuel too and maybe some fungus. Ran some system cleaner then new filters, cleaned right up.

I have some odd problems with mine if it makes ya feel better... had to change tierods to be able to drive it as it was towed incorrectly (silly no?), headlights don't come on yet have power to the fusebox, speedo is dead (it's the speedo not VSS, thankfully), fan was dragging on shroud, and the ELR idle plug was on backwards... among other things.

So not to worry, many things are comically easy to fix (and I have) and others flat out stump you. Once it's ready to roll, you'll be very pleased... I know I am despite I have no night time vision or the ability to tell how fast I'm going.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

I'd start by throwing basic things at it and hope it goes away. Fuel filters, Diesel Purge, etc. If that doesn't do it I'd check the oxidizer catlyst thingy that replaced the trap. I heard they can go bad but I've never read a post on this forum about it. Maybe unplug the EDS connector at the back of the IP to see if that changes anything. Check the EGR and ARV too.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

Two thoughts:
1. Wastegate is sticking open?
2. does your car have the dump valve between the outlet of the turbo and the inlet? maybe it is hanging open.

Other ideas:
-Check/lube throttle linkage. maybe it is sticking and then moving.
-Restriction in the line from mainfold to ALDA and it is taking a bit of time to feed presure to the ALDA?

I forgot this... mine was full of build up. I cleaned it quite well with some carb/brake clean I had laying about.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

I remember when I first got my car that line was blocked and the car was a dog.


Block the egr, pull the intake manifold and clean all of the tar out. Then clean that line. Throw in some new filters and I bet she runs like a champ.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Got too busy at work today to reply here or call my indy. Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will follow on them when I get the chance.

Gotta' fly to LA on Thursday thru the weekend, so I don't get to play with my new toy until next week

Clay

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2002 E320 Sedan 93K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 205K Black Wagon
1982 240D 183K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.

Finally got some time this weekend to play with the new ’87 300SDL. As previously reported, it was hesitating badly but intermittently. Sometimes from a full stop, sometimes accelerating rounding a corner (25mph) and sometimes when pushing it from slow cruise (55mph) to pass. It would just be a dead pedal, no building rpm, no nothing. Then, like a count down, with the pedal still down, but not floored, 5-4-3-2-1 BLASTOFF, with an impressive cloud of black smoke.

Took it out late Friday night for an Italian tune-up. Found a good long hill (about a mile) on a deserted street and kept it in low gear all the way up. Ran it around some more and it seemed to smoke less when it would do the hesitation thing, but still was doing the countdown. The hesitation was periodic and no pattern of when, or if it would happen.

Please keep in mind that if ya’ll go too far along on all this ALDA, waste gate, boost stuff, you will lose me. I am a neophyte but avid reader of the forum.

Anyway……found what I believe is the EGR value over by the air cleaner and it had a single vac line that I disconnected and plugged with a golf tee. NO MORE SMOKE!!! NO MORE HESITATION!!!

The car was running great and I burned 1/3 of a tank running all over town and taking an hour highway cruise. I have not reversed the experiment yet to see if the symptoms return.

Can I just keep running with the EGR non functioning? I read the threads concerning the “plate” to make this change permanent, but was not sure I understood. I have to have the car emissions tested before I get my new tags, new law in Tennessee as of 4/1/05 . Will having the EGR blocked cause a problem with the test? Can the EGR be cleaned/rebuilt or do you have to install a new one?

Other work done:
New hood pad (OK, so I let the indy do this one. For $50 labor I did not even want to go there. No telling what I would have glued.)
New headlight doors
Three interior lights
Leaf removal under fuse box and battery
De-rust and paint battery tray (only rust I have found so far)
Wash and partial wax (big car!)
New headlight washer blades, washers for head lights are in-op, but no time to T-shoot
Admire


Thanks for any tips on the EGR. I searched a bunch, but either the threads were over my head, or I could not find the answer directly.

Clay

__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 93K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 205K Black Wagon
1982 240D 183K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.

The EGR should have been the first thing that we advised to disconnect.

I definitely should remain plugged for as long as you own the vehicle.

Now, with regard to emissions testing, you need to be more specific about the tests. Do they run the vehicle on a chassis dyno and follow a "road course"? If so, then you "may" need to reconnect the hose for that test.

But, I would attempt to pass the test with the hose plugged. You normally get two tries. If it fails on the first test, connect the hose for the second test. If it passes on the first test, then you know you don't need EGR to pass the test.

I manufacture and sell a kit to permanently remove the EGR valve on that engine.

However, I do it only once per year due to the quantity necessary to keep the cost down. Next run will be in April '06.

I have to ask...I saw the photos of this car and your other diesel sitting in your driveway, on another thread--are you the driver of that nice maroon 240D I saw tooling around Bellevue a couple weeks ago? I had seen the ad for the SDL in the paper, then figured out that you must have been the buyer...

From the paperwork on my 300D, tested and certified before I picked it up, TN is testing for "opacity" of exhaust, and the limit is quite high...I think mine was at 1% and the bar was set at something like 30 or 40. I don't think they are checking under hoods. That would make more work for the testing-station workers, and I don't see them liking that much.

__________________
1981 300D, "a lot of" miles (broken odo)
"Engineered like no other 24-year-old beater in the world."

Brian, upon further review, it looks like that is exactly what Hatterasguy was telling me to do .

BUSTED! Yes, I would suppose that was me, but we prefer to call the color Barolo Rot . An Italian wine colored German car, go figure? I live just over the hill in West Meade, barely. Might have to plan a GTG someday. I’ve seen 2 W123 300D’s parked everyday over at the BMW motorcycle dealer over on White Bridge. Must be guys that work for the shop, oh the irony!

Glad to hear the news on the emissions testing. I had not had to do it on the 240D yet but I was hoping that it would not be much.

Clay

__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 93K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 205K Black Wagon
1982 240D 183K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.

Yeah.......he knows a thing or two. You'd never believe he was 19.

Yeah……when I was 19 I knew everything……unfortunately none of it was useful, unlike Hatterasguy. More unfortunately……..that was almost 30 years ago

Clay

__________________
2002 E320 Sedan 93K Designo Mocha Black Metallic!
1995 E320 Wagon 205K Black Wagon
1982 240D 183K SloPoke

I believe each of these cars are the final production year for that model.

Does your car still have the infamous trap oxidizer installed? This awful system is actually warranteed for life by M-B because it is an EPA thing that keeps malfunctioning. It does tend to clog, overheat and spit crap into the turbo impeller. Mine has been de-modded to the better 1986 set up.

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Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone