but it would not surprise me if you did experience a few more leaks. but if it cures the tapping what choice do you have?

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Common oil leaks for the 603 are valve cover gaskets, oil pan and it's side mounted extension oil pan, turbo oil supply tube, try tightening all of the 10mm bolts as they sometimes become loose. Front and rear main seals, if leaking, not much you can do unless you remove engine, and or transmission for the rear, and replace seals (rear seals usually go first) Also the intake manifolds can leak somewhat and tightening the bolts here can help too.

Sounds like you need to confirm first what is actually rapping, but odds are that it is a lifter.

Thanks, to all the adivse. I have taken the path of least resistance toward investigating this further. Just added a quart of Repsoil oil conditioner/cleaner hopeing to free any sticking lifters. Also added a bottle of Redline injector cleaner with a spare one for the next tank and ran it for about 15 miles.

So far the idle noise has been reduced significantly. But will continue to monitor progress tomorrow after a true cold start.

Now I hear a more noticeable squeel squeek eminating from the front of the engine, hard to determin where from, but does not seem to come from the valvetrane. I looked at the tensioner pully mounting, and it looks fine, is there supposed to be any play or spring resistance here??

The serpentine seems to move fine and is new (does not sound like belt squeel) and does no vibrate. Again, the noise goes away off idle or >1000 rpm.

I think I may have been suffering from a combo of issues that all cropped up at the same time due to some hard driving. Any ideas?

Thanks again,
Bill

just incase the noise hasnt stopped try what i did to my 87 300D. My lifters were ticking and it was pretty noisy, at first i thought it was the injector since it was wet. But if it was an injector i would have had a knock and the engine would shake a bit more. So i tried changing the oil with mobil 1 5w40 and added rislone.

The lifters stopped ticking completly after i let the car idle for 10mins. Now the engine is smooth as silk, and performance seemed to have gone up a bit with the the mobil 1 5w40.

Try adding rislone if the noise is still there, it can be added at anytime so you dont have to change the oil to use it.

__________________
Current:
05 E320 CDI
07 GL320 CDI
08 Sprinter
05 Dodge Cummins
01 Dodge Cummins

Previous
2004 E55 AMG
2002 C32 AMG (#2)
1995 E300
1978 300D
1987 300D
2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[
1981 300SD
1983 300SD
1987 300SDL
2002 Jetta TDI
1996 S420
1995 S500
1993 190E 2.6
1992 190E 2.3
1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed

I switched to some 5w50 for the upcoming winter and my car doesn't leak anymore than it did before.

__________________
I like cars.

My lifters were ticking like crazy, drove me nuts. So I change all of them and am pleased to report that fixed it! And hopefully a nice steady diet of D1 will keep them quite.


Its hard to determine what sounds are through posts, you really need to have someone who knows what they are listening for listen to it. It could be a lifter, injector, or even a pre chamber. But with inline engines like this sometimes you can only narrow it down to a point.

A good place to start would be to have your injectors tested to see if one is popping early or isn't spraying well. While they are out take a look at the pre chambers.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I heard greasybenz's ticking, and I was really happy to hear that Rislone fixed it!
I had a tick, not as loud as his and have all new lifters in my car. It turned out that the seals in the delivery nozzles on the IP were to blame. Same symptoms, the noise goes away over about 1600- 1800 RPM. By that speed the pressure overcomes the loss in the sela area on the IP. Changing the O-ring seals in the delivery nozzles is much easier (and FAR cheaper!) than replacing the lifters so you may want to try that first!

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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

Initial post is an almost exact description of what's happening on mine as well. In addition, on cold startup, there is occasionally an intermittent misfire.

Just performed an oil change last Sunday, Rotella 15W40 with one quart of Rislone. No apparent effect after 200 miles.

STRONG possibility of crud in the passages. Found oil return tube in the filter housing completely clogged, the o-rings so old and hard I had to break them off in chunks with a knife. What really alarmed me is that sometime in the past someone tried to seal the oil filter cover o-ring in place with what looked to be most of a tube of RTV!!!!

500 miles since replacing both the o-rings and copper seals on the delivery valves, per the FSM procedure. No effect on the noise there either.

What's interesting is that I also used Dieselgiant's deluxe purge kit last Sunday. While running off the Gatorade bottle, fuel flow thru the prefilter was greatly improved, all the air was pushed out of the lines and the prefilter and thru the system. Once this happened, the rapping/knocking and clatter went away completely, engine literally purred. Once hooked back up to the fuel tank, the rapping/knocking and clatter came back same as before.

__________________
Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club

Crappy fuel is my guess, when you finish that tank of fuel fill up at a different station and see if they have better quality fuel.
Also id suggest using rotella 5w40 synthetic, it will clean up more crud and will help keep those lifters quiet along with rislone.

__________________
Current:
05 E320 CDI
07 GL320 CDI
08 Sprinter
05 Dodge Cummins
01 Dodge Cummins

Previous
2004 E55 AMG
2002 C32 AMG (#2)
1995 E300
1978 300D
1987 300D
2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[
1981 300SD
1983 300SD
1987 300SDL
2002 Jetta TDI
1996 S420
1995 S500
1993 190E 2.6
1992 190E 2.3
1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed

Would a gunky/collapsed lifter explain the occasional cold-start misfire as well?

I'm thinking of hooking up the Gatorade purge bottle again, this time with regular diesel, and see if I get the same effect on noise.

I'm thinking potential air leak/restricted fuel supply. The increase in fuel flow off the purge bottle was quite dramatic, compared to running off the fuel tank. On the fuel tank, it's not a steady flow, but more of a pulsing action, watching the air bubble in the prefilter bob back and forth. On the purge bottle, by comparison it was like Niagara Falls, inside of 2 minutes all the air had been entrained and sucked thru the system.

All the fuel hoses (except for the return from the secondary filter to the hard pipe) are factory original (and I do mean ORIGINAL!). Could be enough of an air leak that it only rears it's head when trying to suck off the tank.

Recently dealt with something similar on the '05 CRD. It had picked up more clatter than usual, and started having just enough of a misfire to be noticeable under certain conditions, usually after two tanks of fuel. I'd reprime the fuel filter, and get a good bit of air out of it, and it' be good for another two tanks or so. Last dealer visit, the tech noticed the same thing, and went over all the connections and fittings in the fuel system. No more clatter, no more stutter, no more misfire, no more air in the fuel filter.

If none of the above pans out, I'll try Rotella 5W40 and two quarts of Rislone next (recommends 25% sump capacity for diesels).

__________________
Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club

it could possibly be that your getting air in your fuel lines. Thats what was happened in my 300SD, i would get a pulsing. It turned out to be the pre-filter line was cracking underneath letting alot of air in.

But for the misfire on cold start-up my 300D does the same. It also clatters and the lifters tick until the oil starts running throught the car and the engine warms up. Then its smooth sailing from there.

__________________
Current:
05 E320 CDI
07 GL320 CDI
08 Sprinter
05 Dodge Cummins
01 Dodge Cummins

Previous
2004 E55 AMG
2002 C32 AMG (#2)
1995 E300
1978 300D
1987 300D
2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[
1981 300SD
1983 300SD
1987 300SDL
2002 Jetta TDI
1996 S420
1995 S500
1993 190E 2.6
1992 190E 2.3
1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed

Your thinking is sending you down the wrong path.

The air in the primary filter is normal. The bubble will vary in size from time to time, however, it does not affect the operation of the engine. Both of my 603.961 engines run perfectly smooth with a decent sized bubble in the primary.

Air in the fuel system will cause the engine to lose power and or shutdown completely. It does not typically cause a ticking noise that you've described.

You may consider running the engine from the Gatorade bottle using diesel fuel to prove that the issue is with the fuel and not with the supply lines, just to put your mind at ease. I'm confident that the problem is related to fuel, an injector, or a prechamber. When diesel purge eliminates the source of the noise, the problem is definitely related to the injection system downstream of the IP.

This engine should be run with synthetic oil if you have any prayer of eliminating the lifter noise. The '86 is now quiet 99% of the time on Rotella 5W-40. It can still act up after a long hot highway run (four hours or more). I'm not quite on top of that scenario.

You may be experiencing simply louder than normal diesel combustion noise, which goes away over 1500-1800rpm due to the timing device that advances the timing. Might want to check the IP timing, set to advanced side of spec (14.0 instead of 15.0 ATDC). My old W123 had awful diesel noise when cold for about two years, but after driving the snot out of it for those two years, it got quieter and quieter as the carbon buildup burned away (somthing that takes time and a heavy foot). Purge only cleans the fuel system, not the prechambers. This could also be related to an incorrect spray pattern from the injectors, but you'd have to pull them and have them pop tested.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Could it be as simple as the in tank screen is crapped up?

__________________
1995 S350D, Green with black leather interior.
Bought January 2008 w/ 233,xxx miles.
I did 22,000 miles during the first year of ownership.

Read these threads:

Fuel Delivery:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=142399

Diesel Injection:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=142405