My 300d wont start when its cold out...

When it's below 50, it will NOT start without being plugged in, and on the charger for 5 hours. It's been sitting for 7 years, and hasnt had the valves adjusted in 8000 miles (should be adjusted yearly, or 12000 right?) The glow plugs are getting juice, but not sure if they have enough (and I have the seared finger to prove it).
What I have done to it since I pulled it out last year (and it's had the no start when cold problem since then) is this...
New battery (1200 CCA... enough to crank for 30 sec)
Changed oil/filter
Changed ATF/filter
Changed coolant/replaced hoses (not heater hoses... oops, but theyre in good shape)
And I've been doing an italian tune up when its warmed up with seafoam in the tank... I will do a quart of ATF in it if it warms up ever

Heres a story on what happened a week ago... Plugged it in and charged it overnight, and it started. I ran around for 30 min (without shutting it off) and stopped for fuel. I shut the engine off, pumped, and then paied... Got in and cranked it, and It did not start after 2 attempts spaced a min apart...

So please help me, I need this car a week from monday, and I need to trust its coldability...
Thanks alot, I REALLY appreciate it
~Nate

Get the new style glow plugs as a starter (no pun intended) they will make a big difference. Do a search, lots of info on that.

your starter must be turning at least 100 RPM to light off the engine, espically when its cold.

If your compression is low that will cause heard starting.

Wouldnt hurt to check valve lash, Manual says 15K I think, so you should be OK there.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Please see thread title.

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

It is a 76 300d, with the 617? engine...as said in my title

The starter is cranking fairly fast, but How does one measure it without removing it?

How does one check the hand pump on the injector??? I dont even know where that is (I must be stupid)

What do I need to do to replace the fuel filters, and where can I get them?

So bacicly (If I had an unlimited budjet)I should;
get the new style glow plugs
get a new starter (do I need a solonoid too?)
replace the filters...
What I can do for free is;
check hand pump for leaks
and load test battery (but its <2 years old)


Thanks alot
~Nate

i wouldnt convert to new style plugs. i would check all the rest first. it should start fine on the old style plugs. if they are working properly.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

How do I check the glow plugs?
~Nate

You can check by using a ohmeter, disconnect the wiring to GP.
It should be a very low resistance, if open or high resistance = NFG.

I did it before by borowing a fnd's laser thermometer. If u apply elect tot hem they should all increase in temp. Then i found 2 GPs had no change in temp.
Only do it when engine was cold.
Is your GP all running in series, I have old 240D now, which the GP runs in series, if one dies they all don't work. Great!

The 80 300SD I have had individual wires, the relay does work separately, so any one can be not firing without dragging the rest.
I also found out one was not getting juice, so I ran a wire from #2 to #4.

I also put in my own wiring with 2 little match box relay ( 30 amps each)
reason the old wiring has too much parasitic loss, the times was not working.
The pre-owner had wired the GP with the starter, so when starting the GP gets juice. As our temp gets cooler, is getting harder.
Running GP and starter both at the same time is disastrous.
So u need a test light or voltmeter to check if the GP is firing when u crank the engine. If it does u need to wire them like mines. Have a toggle switch to heat up GP.
I am timing mines with 20-25 secs before hit the starter.

Can anyone tell me how long these older GP should be heated before firing?
I mean optimally.

And for desperate person doing desperate things.
Should your diesel connot be fired during cold weather.
Folks here use a tiger torch ( a big propane burner) couple with a stove pipe, and blow hot air tot he bottom of the oil pan.
Being Diesels, u have no worries of gettign fires as a gas engine.
Or have a little propane cap stove heat up under oil pan or the rad.

Be sure u have fire extinguishers around when doing this high wire act!!!!

Diesels are much harder to light up. Caveat Emptor. DOn't sue me if u burn down your house though.

We did it with our propane Bobcat once, the port coleman heater was flameless. Stick it undere the oil sump.
The temp was few below not too cold.
Good Luck.

"i wouldnt convert to new style plugs"

Tom

Those old style GPs waste allot of juice with those resistor wires plus the "one goes out, thats the end of the circuit" thing . The new GPs will really help an engine that might be a little tired. My daughters car was tough to start when it got a little cold, new style plugs gave her "new life". (the car ) I realize we are talking around $100 so that might be a reason to hold off. But it would be the first place I 'd go.

__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

"How does one check the hand pump on the injector??? I dont even know where that is (I must be stupid)"
On the W115 300d there is not a hand pump on the the injection pump. To prime the system after changing filters there is a black round knob on the primary fuel filter. (You pump it until you see fuel in the return)

t walgamuth is right about replacing the plugs. I asked a similar question and am now glad I didn't change over. In my case the ground wire was completely melted (when I tried to remove it from the plug it cracked off in my hand!!) Check your ground wire, I replaced mine and my starting has never been better.

__________________
'84 190d 2.2 - Silver
Converted to 5-Speed
'84 190d 2.2 - Blue
Factory 5-Speed

'76 300D (W115)
Sold, found again in less auspicious circumstances

Ground wire? Do you mean the negitive battery cable? I replaced them all 3 cables 2 years ago (falling apart in your hand describes them perfectly)
I dont really think this is (mainly) a glow plug issue, because after fueling up the glow plug light didnt come on... nor did it need to (because I was driving around for half an hour, and it was warmed up)

Apparently my dad used to add a quart of ATF to the diesul every few fillups to keep the injectors clear (which had rebuilt ones put on 10 years ago)
My uncle seams to think it's the injectors, and would adding a quart of ATF hurt anything other then my gas milage? What kind of ATF should I add?

If I were to pull a glow plug, would I need to replace the crush gasket, or is that fine to do once... also what do I retourque the glow plugs to?
~Nate

*EDIT*What ground wire do you mean? Heres a picture http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/NathanEbert/benzplugs.jpg
The wire circuled in yellow is curroaded, Should I replace it with this? Glow plug connecting wire ?
Is this what you are calling a ground?

If so, how does it reattach?
Yellow is the "glow plug connecting wire", white is the relay, and the pale yellow (i think, r/g color blind here) is the other connecting wire (does this waist a ton of electrictiy? should I replace them all with "glow plug connecting wires?) *EDIT*

Thanks a ton
~Nate

In my case it was the wire on the last glow plug (the on nearest the radiator). I just replaced the wire with 10 AWG wire to the block. In my case the plugs wouldn't get hot enough until it was replaced. Your picture is extraordinarily blurry and it's hard to tell although the wire you say is corroded seems to be the same as mine.

__________________
'84 190d 2.2 - Silver
Converted to 5-Speed
'84 190d 2.2 - Blue
Factory 5-Speed

'76 300D (W115)
Sold, found again in less auspicious circumstances

You should change your fuel filters and adjust your valves to get a baseline. I would also consider upgrading to the new style glow plugs.

If you want to check your starter you need to remove it and take it to a shop that rebuilds them. You shouldn't need to always recharge your battery though. With a good strong battery you can crank a very long time. Is the alt charging?

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I dont have a volt meter but the battery and brake idiot lights are ON untill after it is started, and held above high idle for <5 sec I know my pictures plurry... This is a 617 engine, looking in about 12" from the drivers side of the valve cover... I took the pictures standing behind the drivers side fender, leaning over the engine... I love china, they make exlent camaras for $40 (my falt, i know... but still) I want you to know that I took 23 pictures of this, and this was the best one... that should tell you the quallity of my camara...

So you replaced the wire with a 10 AWG wire? I cant remember if thats solid wire, or twisted strands... Also what did you use for connectors? The rest of the engine has what looks like bent aluminum rods... almost like a heat sink (forums a "W" shape

Should I replace the bent aluminum rods with this also, or are they there for a reason?


I read this article, and it said it shouldnt be plugged into untill 0degrees F (http://engine.articles.mbz.org/diesel/coldstart/)

I dont know how to change the fuel filters, can you please explain how to because fastlane doesn't have a manual (i have a w123 manual, but plan to get a 115 manual ASAP)

I also dont have time to adjust the valves untill after next weekend... which is the weekend they leave

Again, thank you very much... I know I sound like a compleat moron, but I am 15, and am unfamilur with diesels.
~Nate

*EDIT* I also want to reiderate (sp?) that the car did not start after I fueled up after running for 30 min. The idiot light does NOT come on after its running. The glow plug indicator did not come on... When the key's in the on position (before cranking) are the plugs glowing even when the lights off? *EDIT*

The wire was stranded 10 gauge copper which I crimped on the round loop (eye loop?) connectors. One end to the last plug, the other to a bolt on the block. DON'T REPLACE THE SQUIGGLY WIRES!!!!! They are resistence wires, replace those and POW no more glow plugs. If you say that the light is no longer coming on then you may have a bad plug (since these are series plugs, if one is out, they're all out). I would replace that corroded ground first.

Just a thought, if it's just the glow light that is burned out then pop the hood and after about 30-40 seconds (with key in the glow position) those squiggly wires will be red hot.

__________________
'84 190d 2.2 - Silver
Converted to 5-Speed
'84 190d 2.2 - Blue
Factory 5-Speed

'76 300D (W115)
Sold, found again in less auspicious circumstances